Importance of Original Sin

People read things wrong all the time, that should be no mystery. But when the entire history of the Church says something different about what it says than a modern unbeliever is saying, YOU are the one who read it wrong. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Going back to the original point it is clear that they were expected to give everything to the nascent Church. Their failure to do so is even attributed to Satan’s influence.I’ll also note that Peter is clearly setting himself up as God’s representative - to the point where lying to him (at least when he is acting as head of the Church) is lying to God.

Says who? That there are hundreds of different 'interpretations' is not in doubt. That *is* the mystery. Simple message from god himself - how can it be misinterpreted? I'm pretty straightforward on this stuff I just read the words. The history of Christianity is of people putting their own meaning into the words. That's why there a 30,000 different Christian belief systems all with their own interpretations.How come god is such a terrible communicator?

It's possible to misread all kinds of things, and the Bible was written in a different time and cultural context so it is no mystery if it is easily misread. Nevertheless most of it is easy enough to read.; In any case wherever there is a dispute as to the meaning, the millions of believers will have it right, not the unbelievers.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

How nave of you. Everybody else would say the same, and all of you disagree. The differences between genuine Christian denominations are minimal and only on minor secondary points where the Bible isn't quite as clear as on the major points. We all share the major points. But you are probably also mixing heretics and cults in with genuine Christians too, and they do distort the reading of the Bible. ABE: ON the points we are discussing there are NOT a lot of different interpretations. It's pretty much you and ringo and other unbelievers against the entire history of the Church. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Jaywill 994

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Acts does not say that that was a legal requirement. It says that some did it voluntarily. And when Ananias and Sapphire FAKED that they did to look good, they were rebuked for the hypocrisy and NOT for any disobedience.

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Their property could have remained their own. The discipline they underwent was because they wanted to look good when it was not a legal requirement for them to relinquish their property.

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The scripture says nothing of anybody ELSE keeping their property except the couple you just mentioned.The scripture says every other Christian believer, at the time, gave all of their possessions. Just prior to this incident, it says ALL gave everything. Unmistakable words in the text. Do you, Jaywill, disagree with the literal interpretation of the chapter 4 text which says that ALL GAVE EVERYTHING?Now, some logic.I don't know if you will agree with my logic, but doesn't is seem LOGICAL to assume that there would have been lots, of the thousands of believers, who would have kept their property if it was voluntary?Taxes aren't voluntary today, for a reason.The text says Ananias and Sapphire had the power to give the money but lied.People lie on their taxes, but it is the act of not paying them that is the issue.Ananias and Sapphire WERE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT.Call it the "Captain Power dressing down"YOU HAVE THE POWER!(Don't torture the text!)

Which believers, the ones you agree with?

Well of course if you exclude every group that you don't think are Christian - which presumably includes the largest group of all, the Catholics - then you all agree. But that's hardly a sane argument.And the main point is unanswered, why would a message from God himself intended to save humanity be capable of such misunderstanding? In fact ANY misunderstanding. The answer is that this is all man made. Which Church? Orthodox? Catholic? Yours?

The Church means all genuine believers no matter what the denomination. Historically there was essential agreement on most of the major texts by most theologians if you go back to the beginning. Heresies were identified and thrown out, etc. Which is not to say there weren't minor differences then too, and different ways of expressing principles and so on.Pascal said the Bible contains enough light to inform and guide believers but enough obscurity to keep out the insincere unbelievers.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Including Catholics and Orthodox? Pascal was admitting that this man-made god can't communicate worth a damn. And saying that believers can make up what they like about it.

All genuine believers includes those in the Roman Church and the Orthodox Church and any other church. There are some in all denominations.And now you are making up what Pascal meant. Too bad he isn't still alive to set you straight.

So now I'm confused. What is a 'genuine' believer? I'm interpreting what Pascal said. Apparently that's ok for the bible so...But you're still not answering the core question, why is god's message so opaque? Why couldn't he communicate it such that there could be no need for this convoluted 'interpretation' that causes so much trouble?

A genuine believer is someone who is born again and lives for Christ. There are some in every denomination, more in some denominations than other denominations, and although in many cases it is possible to recognize them, sometimes it isn't. It's a spiritual thing.There is no doubt what Pascal meant and it is not what you interpreted it to mean. He thinks it very wise of God to inspire the Bible in such a way as to enlighten believers but mislead or at least remain opaque to unbelievers.I intended the quotation of Pascal to answer your question why the Bible seems opaque to you. It isn't opaque to a believer even if parts of it are hard to understand.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

So that would be anybody that believes what you believe? Yes that's what he means. But the conclusion from that is that god can only communicate with those that already believe in him. What use is that? His stated intention was to save the world, not just a lucky few.It's also total garbage.

That is not what it says. It plainly includes holding back the money. No apologist can lie their way out of that.