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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 976 of 2073 (808560)
05-11-2017 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 974 by Davidjay
05-11-2017 1:06 PM


Re: Got ya again .. Think bat think
Davidjay writes:
Chir means bat, CHir stated that bats are our primates ancestors, and three other stupid evolutionaries said the same thing.
That's a flat out lie. I dare you to quote any of us saying that.
Remember, ... ah Ill tell you later...as no one gets away with anything with the Lord.
What is the Lord going to think about your lies?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 974 by Davidjay, posted 05-11-2017 1:06 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 980 of 2073 (808575)
05-11-2017 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 979 by RAZD
05-11-2017 1:36 PM


Re: Partial truths, partial lies, mostly GIGO
RAZD writes:
Perhaps you could extract from those rambling posts where you addressed what steps make up the scientific method?
What I extracted is that Davidjay is totally against the use of the scientific method.
"No keep, schools for knowledge rather than theories."--Davidjay, post 953
The final output of the scientific method is theories. If you say that you don't want theories taught to students, then you are saying that you don't want the scientific method taught.
"I am sad because the practical result of this brouhaha will not be expanded coverage to include creationism (that would also make me sad), but the reduction or excision of evolution from high school curricula. Evolution is one of the half dozen "great ideas" developed by science. It speaks to the profound issues of genealogy that fascinate all of usthe "roots" phenomenon writ large. Where did we come from? Where did life arise? How did it develop? How are organisms related? It forces us to think, ponder, and wonder. Shall we deprive millions of this knowledge and once again teach biology as a set of dull and unconnected facts, without the thread that weaves diverse material into a supple unity?"--Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory"
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 979 by RAZD, posted 05-11-2017 1:36 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 982 by NoNukes, posted 05-12-2017 9:39 AM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1072 of 2073 (840634)
10-02-2018 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1066 by creation
10-02-2018 12:28 PM


Re: nature of time
creation writes:
Only when filtered through your religion does evidence contradict creation. In reality it all agrees.
I think you have that backwards. You reflexively call anything that contradicts your beliefs a religion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1066 by creation, posted 10-02-2018 12:28 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by creation, posted 10-02-2018 7:04 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1076 of 2073 (840692)
10-03-2018 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1073 by creation
10-02-2018 7:04 PM


Re: nature of time
creation writes:
I look at the reality of the claim and the actual basis. Origin sciences claims are totally belief based.
If you observe a car coming down the street, is that belief based?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by creation, posted 10-02-2018 7:04 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by creation, posted 10-03-2018 12:17 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1081 of 2073 (840731)
10-03-2018 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by creation
10-03-2018 12:17 PM


Re: nature of time
creation writes:
The wise men observed on over a house on a street. Yet you have faith something else happened.
The universe does not exist according to what you see happen on a street on earth.
You didn't answer my question. If you see a car coming down the street is that a belief based conclusion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by creation, posted 10-03-2018 12:17 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1083 by creation, posted 10-03-2018 10:43 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1528 of 2073 (877850)
06-22-2020 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1525 by Kleinman
06-22-2020 2:36 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Each transitional state requires another mutation and it takes a billion replications for that mutation to occur.
Let's look at humans as our example. How many beneficial mutations are available in the human genome? If you think it is just one, you are flat out wrong. Two examples off the top of my head are mutations that control melanin production and lactose tolerance. For changes in melanin production, there are many possible mutations that can change the phenotype, not just one. Even more, both of these mutations can happen in the same population and then be joined together in one genome through sexual reproduction. Skin color doesn't have to wait for lactose tolerance, or vice versa.
You seem to think that one experiment is applicable to all populations and all environments. You are wrong. It isn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1525 by Kleinman, posted 06-22-2020 2:36 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1547 of 2073 (877907)
06-23-2020 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1539 by Kleinman
06-22-2020 9:23 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
you can find phylogenic trees all over the place drawn by biologists that claim this very thing. Here's one of a myriad of hits that I found with a simple search.
The closest node to mammals is Amniota:
Fish are much more distant. Mammals evolved from reptile-like ancestors, also known as Synampsids:
Synapsida

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1539 by Kleinman, posted 06-22-2020 9:23 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1548 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 11:09 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 1554 of 2073 (877916)
06-23-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1548 by Kleinman
06-23-2020 11:09 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
So you agree, fish evolve into mammals.
The step just before mammals was synapsids which were reptile-like. Usually when someone says A evolved into B they are asking about the immediate steps. Do mammals have fish ancestors? Yes. Mammals also have reptile-like ancestors, amphibian-like ancestors, jawless vertebrate ancestors, and single celled eukaryotic ancestors. Why are you picking fish out of that list?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1548 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 11:09 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1556 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 12:29 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1561 of 2073 (877942)
06-23-2020 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1556 by Kleinman
06-23-2020 12:29 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
If you want to see immediate steps, take a look at the Kishony experiment.
Your hobby horse is getting worn out.
And why am I picking out fish? Haven't you ever heard a good fish story? You heard about the one-armed fisherman? Someone asked how big the fish was that he caught. He stuck out his arm and said it was that long.
I will ask again. Out of all the non-mammalian ancestors of mammals, why did you select fish? Explain. Why not select the reptile-like mammalian transitionals?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1556 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 12:29 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1605 of 2073 (878057)
06-25-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1567 by Kleinman
06-24-2020 9:29 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
You either have not followed or understood my discussion with Taq on the "Do you really understand the mathematics of evolution" topic. If you have 2 possible beneficial mutations, the number of replications required is still over a billion replications.
If there are 10,000 possible beneficial mutations, what is the probability then? What about 2 million possible beneficial mutations?
But what happens after that first beneficial mutation occurs? Are there many beneficial mutations for the next and ensuing evolutionary steps for that selection pressure?
You still don't understand sexual reproduction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1567 by Kleinman, posted 06-24-2020 9:29 AM Kleinman has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1619 of 2073 (878108)
06-25-2020 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1617 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 4:02 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
What does your fossil tea-leaf reading tell you about the Kishony and Lenski experiments?
If you think there is only one possible mutation in a whole genome for every single adaptation, and that there is only one possible and specific adaptation for every environmental challenge, then you need to get out into the real world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1617 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 4:02 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1620 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 4:44 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 1621 of 2073 (878115)
06-25-2020 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1620 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 4:44 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
So you think that Tiktaalik could have just as easily been a tripod or a pentapod?
"Mr. Kleinman, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."--from the movie "Billy Madison"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1620 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 4:44 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1622 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:08 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1623 of 2073 (878119)
06-25-2020 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1622 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 5:08 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Perhaps Tiktaalik could have evolved into an octopod or a centipod or even a millipod. I've seen replicators like that in the real world. Are you now telling us that it is an impossible adaptation?
Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led to those adaptations?
Use your brain. I promise, it won't hurt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1622 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:08 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1624 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:33 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1625 of 2073 (878123)
06-25-2020 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1624 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 5:33 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Can you explain to us how there was only a single possible mutation at a single base in the Tiktaalik lineage that would have led it to be a tetrapod?
I will take that as a tacit admission that the Kishony experiment does not apply.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1624 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 5:33 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1626 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:08 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1627 of 2073 (878129)
06-25-2020 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1626 by Kleinman
06-25-2020 6:08 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
I will take that as a tacit admission that you have no idea what went on with Tiktaalik genetically.
Until you can show that there was only a single mutation at a single base that led to tetrapods then you can't apply the Kishony experiment.
Why do you deny the evidence showing that eukaryotic DNA evolution works the same way as bacterial DNA evolution?
You are the one denying the existence of sexual reproduction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1626 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:08 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1628 by Kleinman, posted 06-25-2020 6:38 PM Taq has not replied

  
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