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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 933 of 1482 (840753)
10-04-2018 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 932 by ringo
10-03-2018 6:08 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
What does that have to do with what I said?
Didn't you ask about God's use of words?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 932 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 6:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 935 by ringo, posted 10-04-2018 11:44 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 934 of 1482 (840754)
10-04-2018 12:27 AM
Reply to: Message 931 by ringo
10-03-2018 5:59 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
I thought you said that time doesn't exist.
That is correct. Time does not exist. There is existence. There are events that take place in that existence. There is existence between those events. The duration of that existence is what we measure with our concept of time.
Since you have time confused with existence I don't expect you to understand what I have said. You want to take time and measure time with it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 931 by ringo, posted 10-03-2018 5:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 936 by ringo, posted 10-04-2018 11:52 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 949 of 1482 (840871)
10-04-2018 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 942 by Taq
10-04-2018 4:05 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Taq,
Taq writes:
You are simply wrong on this point.
Why do we need leap seconds if the Atomic clock is in sync with the rotation of the earth?
quote:
Every now and then a leap second is added to Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) in order to synchronize clocks worldwide with the Earth's ever slowing rotation. Leap seconds are added to realign clocks worldwide with the Earth's rotation.
why do we have leap seconds - Google Search
Seems like the clock and the earth don't match so the clock has to be adjusted to the rotation of the earth.
Taq writes:
You also have the problem of entropy. If time didn't exist then entropy would not exist. If entropy doesn't exist then biochemistry stops working. According to your own claims you shouldn't be alive right now.
I have existence which is what you call time. There are events that take place during existence and usually not all at once. The distance between those events is what we measure with a time piece.
There is coming an event in the future when time as we know it will cease to exist. But there will still be existence with duration between events.
Taq writes:
Atomic clocks are not kept in sync with anything. They tick at a specific rate because of the most basic physical laws, not because the Earth has a specific rotational velocity.
Then why do we have to have leap seconds?
I think it is because the earth is slowing down which make the day longer so leap seconds have to be added so the clock and earth are in sync.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 942 by Taq, posted 10-04-2018 4:05 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 955 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:15 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 956 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:22 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 950 of 1482 (840875)
10-05-2018 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 936 by ringo
10-04-2018 11:52 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
Have you been eating some silly soup?
ringo writes:
Existence is not a thing; it's a property of things. Like red is not a thing. You can't have a big bag of red. Red might be a property of what's in the bag but red itself is not a thing. And you can not have a bag of existence. What you have in the bag may or may not have the property of existence - it may or may not exist - but you can't say it "is" existence.
If I got a bag!!!
There has to be somewhere I exist.
I exist.
The bag exists.
Now the only way red can exist in that bag is if I put red in there.
Red has to be a substance for me to put red in the bag, unless the bag is real big and I put my dog named red in it. I could pour some red paint in the bag and the inside of the bag would be red. If there was a piece of wood in the bag it would get red paint on it.
I hope that helps you understand what existence is. It is the opposite of an absence of anything.
God is existence and without Him there is no existence.
ringo writes:
We measure distance with distance,
How do you accomplish that?
You can measure distance by inches, feet, yards, miles or multiple miles. You can also measure distance with man's concept of time.
It takes me 1hr and 15 minutes to go from my house to my doctors office.
ringo writes:
We measure an unknown time with a known time
Please explain that statement.
ringo writes:
the period of a pendulum's swing.
You can measure the distance of a pendulum's swing with a tape measure.
You can also measure the duration it takes for the pendulum to swing from 1 extreme to the other extreme with a stop watch. The result of which you call the time it takes to make that journey.
But please tell me how you measure time. I use a watch.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 936 by ringo, posted 10-04-2018 11:52 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 964 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 951 of 1482 (840876)
10-05-2018 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 935 by ringo
10-04-2018 11:44 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
I asked what God has to do with our definitions of words.
No you asked creation the following.
ringo writes:
Is your God so puny that He needs to use our definitions?
I replied with God definition of eternity which is "I exist that I exist"
We try to put a limit on existence and there is no limit on the duration of existence. There is either existence or non-existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 935 by ringo, posted 10-04-2018 11:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 965 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:02 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 952 of 1482 (840878)
10-05-2018 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 937 by creation
10-04-2018 3:09 PM


Re: Creation
Hi creation,
creation writes:
I don't think you know what time is, and cannot wave it away as being merely a construct of the mind of man. How long does it take for a squirrel to cross a road or a bird to migrate? Time is not a figment or creation of our mind it is real.
I know that time is not an object.
I know that time is not a thing.
I know that time is not a place.
I know I can not measure time.
I know I can not see time.
I know I can not feel time.
I know I can not taste time.
I know I can not hear time.
I know I can not tell time.
I know that I live in the present.
I also know that 1 second from that present will be the present.
I know that I can measure the duration from sunrise to sunset with the concept of time.
I know I can measure the duration it takes me to go from my house to my doctors office with the concept of time.
The squirrel is not concerned with time when he decides to cross the road. He does not think of the possibility he may never make it to the other side of the road. But depending on how fast he travels and how wide the road is determines the duration it takes for him to make the journey unless somebody interrupts his journey by running over him. In that case he will not make it across the road. But that will not stop duration or existence. He will still exist but he will be dead.
The migrating bird takes x amount of duration to travel the distance to where he is going. We measure the length of that duration with mans concept of time. Hours and days and sometimes even weeks.
I think I have a pretty good grip of what time is and is not.
You are welcome to try and convince me that time is something other than a concept created by mankind to measure the duration between events on earth.
I believe the shumarians were the first to devise a way to measure the duration between the rising of the sun and the going down of the sun. They didn't know the earth is what was moving not the sun. The Egyptians then got into the mix and created a sundial and divided that light period into 12 hours and the night into 12 hours.
But anyway man got smarter and built time-pieces of all kinds.
All of these are based on the rotation of the earth relative to the sun.
These guys here has been trying to convince me that time is a dimension to no avail. They have not put up a good argument yet.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 937 by creation, posted 10-04-2018 3:09 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 963 by creation, posted 10-05-2018 11:58 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 953 of 1482 (840880)
10-05-2018 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 948 by Tangle
10-04-2018 6:31 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
Fine, let's start with when.
Why don't you go first?
Oh I forgot there is no scientific answer just a guess.
I can't tell you the duration the universe has existed. But I can tell you the when it began to exist. It began to exist in the beginning but not necessarily in the form it exists in today. There is no number large enough to define the duration from the beginning because God has always existed and so has the universe just not in the form it is today. Besides there was only one light period that existed until God created darkness that existed at Genesis 1:2.
That makes it quite a bit older than the age given by YEC'S or scientist. They are all wrong.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 948 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2018 6:31 PM Tangle has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 954 of 1482 (840881)
10-05-2018 1:59 AM
Reply to: Message 945 by creation
10-04-2018 6:09 PM


Re: Creation
Hi creation,
creation writes:
How about creation? That is the topic after all. I am telling you that science cannot begin to cover it. Yet they make belligerent origin claims. That is criminally insane.
Scientist make no claim as to the origin of the universe.
Neither do they make any claim as to the origin of life.
The only scientific answer I have ever been given is "we don't know".
But they have all the answers for what took place after the beginning of their existence.
I have always been of the opinion if you don't know how they began to exist you can not be sure what took place after they began to exist.
But that does not stop them from trying to get me to believe their fairy tale.
I have trouble with starting in the middle and trying to explain it. You have to start at the beginning.
I have a book as well as some very old parchments that tell me how the universe began to exist. It also tell me how I got here, why I am here, and where I am going when I leave here.
Science has no such book.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 945 by creation, posted 10-04-2018 6:09 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 957 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:25 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 962 by creation, posted 10-05-2018 11:55 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 972 of 1482 (840964)
10-06-2018 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 962 by creation
10-05-2018 11:55 AM


Re: Creation
Hi creation,
creation writes:
I disagree. I say science does make origin claims.
Idiots have made origin claims but real scientist make no such claims.
When asking about origin of the universe or life the only scientific answer I have ever received is "we don't know". That from real scientist.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 962 by creation, posted 10-05-2018 11:55 AM creation has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 973 of 1482 (840965)
10-06-2018 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 955 by JonF
10-05-2018 10:15 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Easy. Atomic clocks are not in sync with the rotation of the Earth. They are in sync with one of various energy level transitions in particular atoms, and are in no way connected to the rate of rotation of the Earth.
The atomic clock is just that a clock. However a very sophisticated clock, designed by man and created by man using atoms to determine the length of a second.
But a clock has one purpose and that is to measure the duration between events.
I used to have a watch that gained 5 minutes every 24 hours. If I had put it in a drawer and picked it up and put it on a couple of weeks later forgetting it gained that 5 minutes every day and I had a Dr appointment at 2 PM, I would get to my Dr's office at 10 minutes to one.
Since the earth is slowing down the day gets longer but the atomic clock can't keep up. Leap seconds then are required.
So time is based on the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. Not to the atomic clock.
You can't adjust the earth so you have to adjust the clock.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 955 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:15 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 978 by JonF, posted 10-06-2018 9:07 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 974 of 1482 (840966)
10-06-2018 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 956 by JonF
10-05-2018 10:22 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
The Earth-rotation clock is adjusted to match the atomic clock.
How do you adjust the earth's rotation?
You add leap seconds to the atomic clock. You can't change the earth's speed of rotation, only God could do that.
Jon writes:
Leap seconds are added so the atomic clock and earth are in sync, but not because of any change in the Earth's rotation rate. As of now that's too small to be important. They are added because atomic-clock time does not tick at the same rate as Earth-rotation time.
So the second that is chosen to be one second in duration is wrong and it is not a good representation of one second.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 956 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:22 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 979 by JonF, posted 10-06-2018 9:12 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 975 of 1482 (840967)
10-06-2018 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 957 by JonF
10-05-2018 10:25 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
The scientific answer is "we're not sure but we have some possible hypotheses and are making significant progress in finding out".
So you don't know either.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 957 by JonF, posted 10-05-2018 10:25 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 980 by JonF, posted 10-06-2018 9:15 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 976 of 1482 (840968)
10-06-2018 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 963 by creation
10-05-2018 11:58 AM


Re: Creation
Hi creation,
creation writes:
The earth would orbit in the same time if no man lived on earth, or if all men hid in a closet for a few days.
Your claim that animals have no concept of time is not supported.
The earth is slowing down every day. But as JonF says not much.
When it comes to animals having a concept of time I have never seen one with a watch, not even Mr. Ed the talking horse.
Some animals move around at night, others during the day time. Some sleep in the daytime and others at night. They all eat when they get hungry
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 963 by creation, posted 10-05-2018 11:58 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 994 by creation, posted 10-08-2018 9:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 977 of 1482 (840970)
10-06-2018 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 964 by ringo
10-05-2018 12:00 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
But of course red isn't a substance. Go to the hardware store and ask for some red. They'll look at you like you're an idiot. Red is not a substance.
Actually the clerk would ask red what?
ringo writes:
The paint would have the property red. The wood would have the property red. Red is a property of things. It is not a thing.
Actually there has to be red pigment put in the base paint to make it red.
So red is a substance.
The Egyptians made red from iron oxides and red ochres. which was used to make red dye and paint.
ringo writes:
Something that does not exist is neither absent nor present.
If it does not exist it is non-existant
You can be absent from EvC for a period of duration then you could return and you would be present. But you existed all the duration.
ringo writes:
I told you. We compare known distances with unknown distances, like an unknown length of two-by-four with a known length of yardstick.
It takes too long to measure a 2 x 4 with a yardstick unless you are cutting a piece off of it less than 36". I use a tape measure.
I would not try to measure the distance from my house to Miami with a yardstick. Not even my tape. I would get in the car and drive to Miami and read the odometer and it would tell me how many miles it was. If I did not want to drive to Miami I would just go to map quest type in my address and the address I wanted to go to in Miami and it would give me the distance between the two addresses.
ringo writes:
I did. We compare an unknown time, say the time it takes to run 100 meters, with a known time, say the time it takes a one-meter-long pendulum to make one swing.
You got 2 unknowns there.
How am I supposed to figure out the duration it takes a one meter pendulum to make one swing.
Even if I knew, it would not tell me how long it would take to run 100 meters.
Now I could take a stop watch and measure the duration required for both your events to occur.
ringo writes:
ICANT writes:
But please tell me how you measure time. I use a watch.
You answered your own question.
But actually my clock won't measure time.
It will measure the duration between events.
Time does not exist as it is a concept mankind has devised to measure the duration between events. The clocks we use to measure that duration is based on the rotation of the earth relative to the sun.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 964 by ringo, posted 10-05-2018 12:00 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 982 by ringo, posted 10-06-2018 12:25 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 983 of 1482 (841010)
10-07-2018 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 978 by JonF
10-06-2018 9:07 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Time is based on whatever measure is convenient and sufficiently accurate.. Earth's rotation varies too much to be sufficiently accurate, not to mention the problem that Earth's rotation is difficult to impossible to measure under almost all circumstances.
But the duration of that rotation of the earth relative to the sun is what we have to measure, and divide up into 24 hours.
What if the Egyptians had used 48 hours instead of 24? Each hour divided into 120 seconds the cycles of the atom would have to be said to be 2 seconds not one. Because any other way the two would not be close to being in sync.
Jon writes:
In the US, the official definition of time is the time kept by the NIST-F2 atomic clock. https://www.nist.gov/...s-time-standard-nist-f2-atomic-clock. Other countries use other atomic clocks. The various clocks are compared to each other regularly.
quote:
"The second is the duration of 9 192 631 770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom."
That is the adopted length of a second, as chosen by man.
But it is irrelevant what we use to measure duration between events the rotation of the earth relative to the sun is the only thing that counts. There is only so much duration between sunrise and the following sunrise which is designated as 24 hours in duration with each hour divided into 60 minutes each hour with each minute divided into 60 seconds.
It is said that the latest atomic clock will not gain or lose 1 second in 300 million years. That is great but in that 300 million years without leap second adjustments it would be very inconvenient as the atomic clock and the earth would not be in sync.
So it makes no difference how long the clock could run without the cycles of the radiation varying. The earths rotation determines how much duration there is between sunrise and sunrise, and that is what has to be measured.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 978 by JonF, posted 10-06-2018 9:07 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 987 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:46 AM ICANT has replied

  
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