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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 984 of 1482 (841011)
10-07-2018 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 982 by ringo
10-06-2018 12:25 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Exactly. Because red is not a thing.
Where did the red ochres get their red from. They were red and they were what was used to paint with, write with and dye with. So what were they besides red?
ringo writes:
That's what I said. But you said in Message 950, "I hope that helps you understand what existence is. It is the opposite of an absence of anything." That's wrong. Absence is not necessarily non-existence.
How is that supposed to follow.
Oh I see, you just purposely left off, "of anything". You can't chop up a statement like that and get a true meaning.
You only used absence in your statement.
Absence of anything does not equal 'absence'.
Absence of anything is all inclusive.
If there was an absence of anything, there would be no universe and anything that is in it.
There would be an absence of anything outside of the universe as there would be no thing. It would not be like you going on a trip.
I know you can not understand that so why don't we just move on.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 982 by ringo, posted 10-06-2018 12:25 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 990 by ringo, posted 10-07-2018 2:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 985 of 1482 (841012)
10-07-2018 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 981 by ringo
10-06-2018 12:10 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Do we have to show evidence that the sun rises every day? If you think it doesn't, you're the one who has to show evidence.
What is the duration of a day and what determines the length of that duration?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 981 by ringo, posted 10-06-2018 12:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 988 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:48 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 991 by ringo, posted 10-07-2018 2:55 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 986 of 1482 (841013)
10-07-2018 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 980 by JonF
10-06-2018 9:15 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon
Jon writes:
Only if you define "know"
Do you care to share what you do know concerning the origin of the universe and the origin of life?
This thread is about creation which is the origin of things.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 980 by JonF, posted 10-06-2018 9:15 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 989 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:51 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 993 of 1482 (841100)
10-08-2018 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 987 by JonF
10-07-2018 9:46 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
The choice of what to measure and how to divide up that measurement is purely arbitrary.
So time that we have been talking about is a concept of man that he has devised to measure the duration between events in existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 987 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:46 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 996 by JonF, posted 10-08-2018 2:39 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 995 of 1482 (841151)
10-08-2018 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 994 by creation
10-08-2018 9:48 AM


Re: Creation
Hi creation,
creation writes:
The moon doesn't have a watch either, but takes so much time to orbit. The issue of exactly how poor little mankind marks time is not so important. It still exists the same. To claim time is nothing but the way man marks time is actually foolish.
Why would the moon need a watch? It is in it's orbit around the earth, and has nothing to do with the revolution of the earth relative to the sun.
How do you mark time? Time is what is used to measure duration between events in eternity.
Time does not exist. It is not an object, that can be measured. It is not a dimension of the universe. If it was you should be able to measure it with length, width, height or depth.
But what we call time is what we use to measure the duration between events in the universe (existence).
quote:
1.
the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.
"travel through space and time"
the progress of time as affecting people and things.
"things were getting better as time passed"
time or an amount of time as reckoned by a conventional standard.
"it's eight o'clock Eastern Standard Time"
the personification of time, typically as an old man with a scythe and hourglass.
noun: Time; noun: Father Time
2.
a point of time as measured in hours and minutes past midnight or noon.
definition of time - Google Search
quote:
Definition of time
1 a : the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues : duration
b : a nonspatial continuum that is measured in terms of events which succeed one another from past through present to future
quote:
Short Definitions
what clocks measure (attr. to physicists Albert Einstein, Donald Ivey, and others)
what prevents everything from happening at once (physicist John Wheeler and others)
a linear continuum of instants (philosopher Adolf Grnbaum)
a certain period during which something is done (Medical Dictionary)
a continuum that lacks spatial dimensions (Encyclopaedia Britannica)
Although each of these definitions is fine as far as it goes, none of them feel wholly satisfactory. Dictionary Definitions
Various dictionaries have defined time as follows:
the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present and future regarded as a whole (Oxford Dictionary)
the measured or measurable period during which an action, process or condition exists or continues (Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary)
the continuous passage of existence in which events pass from a state of potentiality in the future, through the present, to a state of finality in the past (World English Dictionary)
a continuous, measurable quantity in which events occur in a sequence proceeding from the past through the present to the future (Science Dictionary)
the measured or measurable period during which an action, process or condition exists or continues (Merriam-Webster Dictionary)
the dimension of the physical universe that orders the sequence of events at a given place (McGraw-Hill Encyclopedia of Science and Technology)
a non-spatial system in which events appear to happen in irreversible succession (WordSmyth Dictionary)
the inevitable progression into the future with the passing of present events into the past (Wiktionary)
the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole (Google)
quote:
Time standards based on Earth rotation.
Apparent solar time ('apparent' is often used in English-language sources, but 'true' in French astronomical literature[3]) is based on the solar day, which is the period between one solar noon (passage of the real Sun across the meridian) and the next. A solar day is approximately 24 hours of mean time. Because the Earth's orbit around the sun is elliptical, and because of the obliquity of the Earth's axis relative to the plane of the orbit (the ecliptic), the apparent solar day varies a few dozen seconds above or below the mean value of 24 hours. As the variation accumulates over a few weeks, there are differences as large as 16 minutes between apparent solar time and mean solar time (see Equation of time). However, these variations cancel out over a year. There are also other perturbations such as Earth's wobble, but these are less than a second per year.
Sidereal time is time by the stars. A sidereal rotation is the time it takes the Earth to make one revolution with rotation to the stars, approximately 23 hours 56 minutes 4 seconds. For accurate astronomical work on land, it was usual to observe sidereal time rather than solar time to measure mean solar time, because the observations of 'fixed' stars could be measured and reduced more accurately than observations of the Sun (in spite of the need to make various small compensations, for refraction, aberration, precession, nutation and proper motion). It is well known that observations of the Sun pose substantial obstacles to the achievement of accuracy in measurement.[4] In former times, before the distribution of accurate time signals, it was part of the routine work at any observatory to observe the sidereal times of meridian transit of selected 'clock stars' (of well-known position and movement), and to use these to correct observatory clocks running local mean sidereal time; but nowadays local sidereal time is usually generated by computer, based on time signals.[5]
Mean solar time was originally apparent solar time corrected by the equation of time. Mean solar time was sometimes derived, especially at sea for navigational purposes, by observing apparent solar time and then adding to it a calculated correction, the equation of time, which compensated for two known irregularities, caused by the ellipticity of the Earth's orbit and the obliquity of the Earth's equator and polar axis to the ecliptic (which is the plane of the Earth's orbit around the sun).
Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) was originally mean time deduced from meridian observations made at the Royal Greenwich Observatory (RGO). The principal meridian of that observatory was chosen in 1884 by the International Meridian Conference to be the Prime Meridian. GMT either by that name or as 'mean time at Greenwich' used to be an international time standard, but is no longer so; it was initially renamed in 1928 as Universal Time (UT) (partly as a result of ambiguities arising from the changed practice of starting the astronomical day at midnight instead of at noon, adopted as from 1 January 1925). The more current refined version of UT, UT1, is still in reality mean time at Greenwich. Greenwich Mean Time is still the legal time in the UK (in winter, and as adjusted by one hour for summer time). But Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) (an atomic-based time scale which is always kept within 0.9 second of UT1) is in common actual use in the UK, and the name GMT is often inaccurately used to refer to it. (See articles Greenwich Mean Time, Universal Time, Coordinated Universal Time and the sources they cite.)
Universal Time (UT) is mean solar time at 0 longitude; some implementations are
UT0 is the rotational time of a particular place of observation. It is observed as the diurnal motion of stars or extraterrestrial radio sources.
UT1 is computed by correcting UT0 for the effect of polar motion on the longitude of the observing site. It varies from uniformity because of the irregularities in Earth's rotation.
Time standard - Wikipedia
My conclusions:
There is existence.
There are events in this existence.
These events have duration between them.
We measure this duration with a human invention called time.
Time is a concept developed by mankind to measure the duration between events in existence (eternity).
Since it is man's concept he gets to determine what that concept is based upon. There are several mentioned above. Most of which are based upon the rotation on the earth relative to the sun or stars.
If you got a better definition share it with us.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 994 by creation, posted 10-08-2018 9:48 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 999 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-08-2018 4:30 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1006 by creation, posted 10-09-2018 12:04 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 997 of 1482 (841156)
10-08-2018 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 990 by ringo
10-07-2018 2:50 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
They didn't "get" red from anywhere because red is not a thing that can be got. They appear red because they reflect light in the part of the spectrum that our eyes and brains call "red". Different substances appear as different colors because their different chemical structures reflect different wavelengths of light. Shine a different wavelength on it and it will no longer appear red, so there can not be any inherent red thing in it.
If it is all in my eye seeing the red in the red ochres how do they make red dye out of red ochres that can make a white piece of cloth look like it is red?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 990 by ringo, posted 10-07-2018 2:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 998 by ringo, posted 10-08-2018 3:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1001 of 1482 (841171)
10-08-2018 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 987 by JonF
10-07-2018 9:46 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
No, it's difficult to measure the rotation of the Earth and it changes back and forth too much to be useful in precise measurements
BTW, the earth rotates in a little less than 24 hours relative to the Sun because of its orbital motion.
I don't see any problem in determining the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. You just use the equator as the point for comparison.
I think it is 3 minutes less than 24 hours.
Jon writes:
The units of time are arbitrarily chosen for convenience.
The Egyptians used the base 12 number rather than our base 10 number as they liked the base 12. Base 12 has a larger number of integer factors than 10. They are 12/6=2, 12/4=3, 12/3=4, 12/2=6, while 10/5=2 and 10/2=5 are all there are for the number 10).
The Egyptians only divided the light period and dark period into 24 hours. Twelve hours of light and twelve hours of darkness. The first minute and second minute began to be used in 150 AD. Minutes and seconds was not used until the first mechanical clocks that displayed minutes appeared near the end of the 16th century. But even today some time pieces do not display seconds.
Where I live we have 14 hours 6 minutes and 49 seconds of light on the longest day of the year. On the shortest day of the year we have 10 hrs 10 minutes and 53 seconds of light.
To the Egyptians that would have been 12 hrs of light and 12 hrs of darkness. So their hours did not contain 60 minutes every hour.
This changed in 1967, when the second was redefined as the duration of 9,192,631,770 energy transitions of the cesium atom.
But this created a problem, in order to keep atomic time in agreement with astronomical time, leap seconds occasionally must be added to UTC.
Time would become useless if the clock's did not match reality.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 987 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:46 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1005 by JonF, posted 10-08-2018 9:23 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1002 of 1482 (841173)
10-08-2018 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 988 by JonF
10-07-2018 9:48 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
If the duration of a day is based on sunrise and sunset, the duration varies from zero to infinity. The length is determined by the Earth's rotation, its axial tilt, where the Earth is in its orbit, and where you are on the Earth.
The earth revolves at near 1,000 mph at a point near the equator. This line is the only one that would take the most duration in the revolution. As you move away from the equator either north or south the amount of time and speed would reduce.
Therefore to talk about a 24 hour day you have to talk about what transpires at or near the equator.
So what is the problem with determining the duration of a day?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 988 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:48 AM JonF has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1003 of 1482 (841174)
10-08-2018 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 989 by JonF
10-07-2018 9:51 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
What Man knows about the origin of the universe and the origin of life fills many, many books. Far better writers than I have explained it in various levels of detail. I'm not going to try to better their efforts in a relatively brief posting. I'll be glad to dig up some links if you are interested.
So you don't know.
cavediver and Son Goku both have stated on this web site "we don't know".
There is no scientific book that address the origin of the universe or life. If you know of one I would like a reference.
There have been proposals put forward with no evidence.
Those proposals have no more weight than the Bible story of creation. In fact I believe they have a lot less because the Bible does make prediction that has been discovered l,000's of years after they were made. Those proposals have nothing.
But maybe you have something new you can point me too.
ABE Have you read Message 1 If not why not discuss it with me I noticed you have not replided to it.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : Add link

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 989 by JonF, posted 10-07-2018 9:51 AM JonF has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1004 of 1482 (841176)
10-08-2018 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 991 by ringo
10-07-2018 2:55 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
That depends on how you define "day". Day is not a standard unit of time.
I prefer God's definition found in Genesis 1:5.
quote:
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
A period of light was called Day.
The evening of that light period and the following dark period were declared Day one.
So my definition of Day would be a light period.
Also a light period followed by a dark period would be called a day.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 991 by ringo, posted 10-07-2018 2:55 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1007 by ringo, posted 10-09-2018 11:38 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1008 of 1482 (841227)
10-09-2018 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 996 by JonF
10-08-2018 2:39 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
No, time exists.
Then what is time?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 996 by JonF, posted 10-08-2018 2:39 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1011 by JonF, posted 10-09-2018 6:44 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1009 of 1482 (841228)
10-09-2018 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 998 by ringo
10-08-2018 3:11 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Shine a red light on a white coth and your eye/brain will see the same red.
I tried that experiment.
I got a very light pink reflection off the red lense but a long way from red. Like when you put the cloth in boiling hot red dye.
So what gives? I thought the red light shining on the cloth would make it look as red as the red ochres made into dye and applied would.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 998 by ringo, posted 10-08-2018 3:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1010 by DrJones*, posted 10-09-2018 6:39 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1023 by ringo, posted 10-10-2018 12:06 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1012 of 1482 (841233)
10-09-2018 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 999 by Tanypteryx
10-08-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tanypteryx,
Tanypteryx writes:
I think you forgot here, now, then, and over there.
Here is a place or position.
Now is the present in duration.
Then is the present at a future now in duration.
Over There is a place that will be here when you get there.
It is also a song. "Over There" is a 1917 song written by George M. Cohan, that was popular with the United States military and public during both world wars. I thought you might like that little tidbit.
So what did I forget?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 999 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-08-2018 4:30 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1013 of 1482 (841234)
10-09-2018 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1000 by ringo
10-08-2018 4:47 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
Cute
ringo writes:
The blonde takes a wrench, undoes a couple of bolts
The base plate needs 4 bolts imbedded properly in a concrete base to distribute the weight and action of the flag due to the wind.
That means she would have to loosen 4 nuts to be able to remove and lay the flag pole down.
But my 35 foot tape could be stretched out to measure it vertical in place, giving me the height. Now if you used an 18' pole the tape would be hard to control at full height.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1000 by ringo, posted 10-08-2018 4:47 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1014 by JonF, posted 10-09-2018 7:29 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1024 by ringo, posted 10-10-2018 12:17 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1025 by ringo, posted 10-10-2018 12:18 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1015 of 1482 (841236)
10-09-2018 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1011 by JonF
10-09-2018 6:44 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
In many applications it's defined as what a clock measures,
Time is very elusive to define but I think my definition is the best so far.
Me Definition:
Time is a concept devised by mankind to measure duration between events in existence. If you got a better one lay it on me.
What a clock measures is duration between events in existence.
A stopwatch is used to measure the duration it takes a man to run 100 meters. Actually they have electronic timers to measure the duration between events in existence.
Jon writes:
just as we often define gravity as a force exerted between masses.
But gravity does not measure the distance between those masses.
Jon writes:
I bet you're going for "we don't know everything therefore we know nothing".
Why in the world would I even entertain such an idea as we know nothing.
We know a lot. But a lot of what we think we know is far from reality.
Jon writes:
Does gravity exist?
I thought the jury was still out on that one.
But I agree there has to be a force that keeps the universe from coming apart. I just believe the Bible gives the answer to that question.
quote:
Colosians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
The Greek word synistmi translated consist (this is the only time it exists in the Bible) means: "to place together, to set in the same place,to bring or band together"
Isn't that what gravity with the help of dark matter is supposed to do?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1011 by JonF, posted 10-09-2018 6:44 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1016 by JonF, posted 10-09-2018 8:18 PM ICANT has replied

  
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