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Author | Topic: Importance of Original Sin | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I'm just pointing out how your belief makes no sense.
In a sense, you are trying to push your non-belief onto me. Phat writes:
Fine.
You can say that my methodology is flawed, but you would have to indict virtually all believers worldwide with the same accusation. Phat writes:
But you're throwing out the evidence that you do have. You claim to believe in Jesus but you throw out everything He taught. You mock the Bible as a dusty old book even though it's the only reason you have to believe that Jesus ever existed. Many of us believe that we have subjective proof enough to convince us....And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It really is though.
..the Bible is not the only reason nor the only source. Phat writes:
You did. You've spent much of this thread arguing against what Jesus said.
And who said I threw out that He taught? Phat writes:
Nonsense. As I've told you over and over and over and over, Jesus just happened to get it right. If He was wrong, I'd say so. Either way, I'm not going to stand by and watch you and Faith pervert the Bible for your own ends. You take the message and run with it only to support your crony socialists.... And I don't have any "crony socialists".And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
We all do. The apostle Paul even said so. Whether it's from nature or nurture, we all have those "social instincts" that put survival of the species ahead of individual selfish interests - unless we're sociopaths or psychopaths or we've had the goodness trained out of us by Pharisees or other Fundamentalists. So in other words, you already had a message of your own which the character in the book just happened to conform to...right? Edited by ringo, : Spellinge.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
It's an objective message - it's agreed on by most humans and it works; it makes life better. The "premise" that the message supersedes the messenger is bloody obvious. And you know it's true. You don't throw away your bills and keep the envellope. So why do you even bring it up?
Thus your premise that the message supersedes the messenger would still presuppose that we ourselves are the messenger living out the message. Does that sound plausible? Phat writes:
No, you're arguing against the closest thing we have to objective evidence of what Jesus taught. Actually, I've been arguing against you....not Jesus.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
One that you made up in your head, one that has little relationship to reality or to the character in the book - even though you have borrowed the name from the character in the book.
My belief is a belief in a living presence...an interactive super conscience that communes with my own. Phat writes:
That's what I've always said. We all have the message. We don't need a made-up character to bring us a message that we already have. My point is that I don't believe that the message is confined to a book written in times past.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Well yes, confirmation bias tends to confirm your biases, not challenge them.
I believe based on a number of subjective experiences that confirmed rather than challenged my faith. Phat writes:
As you said yourself, there's no reason to think otherwise.
I just wonder why you see Jesus as simply a character, an envelope, and a presence limited to a book from the past. Phat writes:
Why is blessing me with favours important? When is the last time a homeless guy ever blessed you with any favor?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
When a shepherd pulls a sheep out of a ditch, it's for his own purposes, not the sheep's. Sometimes the sheep gets eaten. Atheists may argue that the only communion we have is with each other, but it has been wisely said that a sheep cannot pull another sheep out of a ditch. The communion requires a shepherd.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Do you have a point? That doesn't seem to be a reply to my post at all.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Yes, the millions of Muslims are a compelling reason to believe that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammed is his prophet. Not even the fact that millions of others have thought so and many even written extensively about it.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Your claim, in Message 1152, was that millions of believers is a reason to believe that God exists. How do you tell the evil and idiotic millions from the reasonable millions? Except that Ilsam is patently evil and idiotic. That's the difference.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Funny, Jesus said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:16-20) By their doctrines.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
How about your treatment of homosexuals? OK, how about by their suicide bombings and their other jihad killings? But the point is it follows from their doctrinesAnd our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Of course you do. You want to deny them marriage. That isn't loving your neighbour as yourself. I don't "treat" homosexuals any differently than I treat anyone else.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
No it isn't. Consider the Good Samaritan. He helped his neighbour even though his neighbour's beliefs conflicted with his own. Yes it is.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It has to do with your beliefs. You've stated more than once that you're willing to defy the law because of your belief that homosexuality is wrong.
I oppose gay marriage, period. Got nothing to do with anybody's beliefs... Faith writes:
Loving your neighbour as yourself doesn't stop at emergency services. If you want to get to church, you will help your neighbour get to mosque - or to his gay wedding. ... if I find a gay person bleeding in the gutter, whether delusionally "married" or not, I will help him.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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