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Author | Topic: Falsifying a young Universe. (re: Supernova 1987A) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's circular. It depends on him having special access to "God's knowledge". Who's to say that a science-minded Christian can't have the same access to God? He likely will claim that though he himself can't see that far with 100% certainty, God certainly can and does.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Son Goku Inactive Member
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The light they see coming into the fishbowl will look a certain way to them. That does not mean that what they can see (and they admit most of the universe is dark to them) is all that there is out there.
I've already discussed this. Yes it doesn't mean what we can see is all there is out there, it mightn't even be 1% of what is out there. However what we can see fits stellar theory and scientifically that is all one can discuss, i.e. whether a theory fits observations.
Nor does it mean that time is the same out there. What we see take say, a day, could involve a much different level of time out there. Etc.
I don't think you really read other people's posts. I've already explained to you that General Relativity doesn't presume time works the same in the different places. How time works depends on (i.e. is "Relative", it's in the theory's name) where somebody is in relation to other massive objects and how fast they are moving. S0 38 So, rather than get into how far away and big they claim this light to be, can you tell us how it shows time is the same exactly? Redshifted light shows time is the same...how? Ha. So nobody is claiming time "works the same" out in the universe. If time did work the same, General Relativity would be wrong.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
It depends on him having special access to "God's knowledge". Which brings up the obvious question of whether Gods "knowledge" is limited to only believers or whether it is accessible to everyone. Faith will likely assert that one must believe first which leads to one knowing that everything written must then be true. Who's to say that a science-minded Christian can't have the same access to God? Which then leads to the question of whether literal fundamentalist Christians see truths that other Christians miss.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Which in turn brings up the obvious question of who is a true believer - he who mouths, Lord! Lord! or he who shows some sign of having internalized the knowledge.
Which brings up the obvious question of whether Gods "knowledge" is limited to only believers or whether it is accessible to everyone. Phat writes:
Which is patently nonsense. You wouldn't claim that for any other book. You wouldn't say you have to believe The Catcher in the Rye before you know it's literally true.
Faith will likely assert that one must believe first which leads to one knowing that everything written must then be true. Phat writes:
We know that they miss truths that others see - science, for example - so it seems likely that the trend is in that direction. Which then leads to the question of whether literal fundamentalist Christians see truths that other Christians miss.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
OK so you seem to be saying/admitting GR does not deal with what time really is, or what it is like in the far universe.
That alone defeats any case you could make. No distances can be known unless time does exist and exist the same at all points to any star. No event seen here in time has any relative bearing on what time is involved at source! No light can take any known time to get to the area here...etc etc etc. Your belief ship, the good ship cosmology is now full of holes.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Science cannot see outside the fishbowl. Any clues, or guesses/models I would hazard to make on the unknown would have to be based on the known gift of God to man..His word. Otherwise, man must plead ignorance and stop teaching kids and others a bunch of nonsense and godless fables.
I do not need to know all the mysteries of all creation and the created universe. All I need to know is that those claiming they do know are cons.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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creation writes:
The question I asked was: How can YOU see outside the "fishbowl"?
Science cannot see outside the fishbowl. creation writes:
That is not a "known gift". A small number of people believe it is a reliable source of information but reality does not support that belief.
Any clues, or guesses/models I would hazard to make on the unknown would have to be based on the known gift of God to man..His word. creation writes:
The thing is that we can compare science to reality and see that it is true - so we know that the con is YOU. I do not need to know all the mysteries of all creation and the created universe. All I need to know is that those claiming they do know are cons.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Son Goku Inactive Member |
I really don't know how you got that from my post.
GR does deal with what time is like in the far universe, my point was that it explicitly does not assume it is the same everywhere.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... my point was that it explicitly does not assume it is the same everywhere. Careful, you're going to confuse him with facts. Perhaps a touch of how time varies, as in near massive objects. The orbit of Mercury around the Sun as a case in point -- one within his fishbowl bubble ... Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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RAZD writes: Careful, you're going to confuse him with facts. That's the very last thing anyone can do to creation. He wouldn't recognise a fact is Jesus himself gave it to him. His job is to bluster and obfuscate and rebut a fact filled, page length post with a content free one-liner, straight out of his own imagination. Like John Cleese once said ‘what a senseless waste of human life'.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Your idea of science is religion. Calling that reality is cultish ignorance.
As for your claim a small number of people reverence Scripture as a gift from God...ha.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Well if time is not the same everywhere, why would you claim that light took billions of years our time ti get here?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
creation writes:
The cultish ignorance is yours. If you're so smart, why can't you answer any of the questions put to you? Your idea of science is religion. Calling that reality is cultish ignorance.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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creation Member (Idle past 1970 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
I never said I was smart, that would be you. If science doesn't know, why would I want to pontificate reasons on a science forum??? Are you new to honest debate?
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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creation writes:
You claim to know better than thousands of scientists. I don't.
I never said I was smart, that would be you. creation writes:
You don't know what science does know, and yet you have the arrogance to pontificate on a science forum. If science doesn't know, why would I want to pontificate reasons on a science forum???And our geese will blot out the sun.
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