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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 742
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 286 of 314 (842001)
10-25-2018 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Straggler
10-24-2018 5:05 PM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
I guess the real question may be just how much longer she wants to be at the helm? She isn't getting any love from the EU bureaucrats and she is getting continuously scrutinized by her own party. I am wondering if she will eventually throw in the towel if there isn't any kind of cohesive coalition that allows her to make a deal with the EU.
This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1517
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 287 of 314 (842016)
10-25-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Straggler
10-24-2018 5:05 PM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
She looks set to survive the week now. The conservative MPs seem to think that Theresa May remains the person best placed to drive us over the cliff edge. Apparently the alternatives are even less appealing than she is.

The problem with the British Commons at the moment as I see it, is that there is a clear majority against remaining in the EU; and a clear majority against the kind of total separation from the European market favoured by Johnson and ilk; but no majority in favour of any compromise between these two positions. I see no solution.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Diomedes, posted 10-25-2018 2:42 PM caffeine has not yet responded
 Message 289 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-27-2018 12:58 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 742
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 288 of 314 (842020)
10-25-2018 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by caffeine
10-25-2018 2:24 PM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
but no majority in favour of any compromise between these two positions. I see no solution.

The currency markets seem to be echoing that sentiment. Just before Brexit, the Pound-Sterling was 1.5:1 against the US dollar. It now sits at 1.28:1. I am guessing that the markets in general are foreshadowing a hard Brexit. I am not seeing a lot of optimism on a deal being ratified.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1278
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 289 of 314 (842134)
10-27-2018 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by caffeine
10-25-2018 2:24 PM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
The last Pre-Brexit general election saw a vote for a conservative outright majority, and the campaign message from Cameron was that a conservative majority would be the strongest force to keep the U.K.in the E.U.

Vote conservative for a united front against the UKIP.

Back then, both major parties were anti-Brexit.

Then the 52-48 vote for Brexit came in June of 2016.

Then look at the ugly post-Brexit general election choice.

2 pro-Brexit choices.

Yuck.


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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10241
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 290 of 314 (842139)
10-27-2018 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 289 by LamarkNewAge
10-27-2018 12:58 AM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
Back in 2015 the election was all about debt, deficit and austerity with the conservarive’s pledge to have an in-out EU referendum forced on them by the fear of losing votes to UKIP. I know lots of people who voted conservative in that election who are now aghast at us leaving the EU but who don’t make the connection between that vote and where we are now.

2017 election both main parties took the ‘will of the people’ and ‘respecting the referendum’ line. At that point I think it would have been difficult not to. Now, as the shit show unfolds in all its manifest glory, I think things are shifting towards a dawning realisation of how bad it’s going to be. But too little too late. The hardcore Brexit voters have changed their tune from saying how easy and economically advantageous leaving will be to now talking in terms of patriotic principle (“what price freedom and sovereignty?”) and Dunkirk spirit in overcoming the near future hardships leaving will bring.

I’m attempting to get a Spanish passport....


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Replies to this message:
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 Message 292 by AZPaul3, posted 10-27-2018 2:50 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1517
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 291 of 314 (842153)
10-27-2018 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Straggler
10-27-2018 3:53 AM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
I’m attempting to get a Spanish passport....

Irish application in process. Slightly more pressing for me since no one seems to have any idea what my legal residency status will be come March.


This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3477
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 292 of 314 (842165)
10-27-2018 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Straggler
10-27-2018 3:53 AM


Re: Boris to the rescue?
now talking in terms of patriotic principle (“what price freedom and sovereignty?”) and Dunkirk spirit in overcoming the near future hardships leaving will bring.

Kinda like the duffus that shoots himself in the kneecap but is willing to suffer the years of pain, decades of handicap and lifetime of shame just to keep his guns.

But what am I complaining about. Over here we yanks shot ourselves in the head and are now revelling in the stupidity of that action with further calls for more bullets.


This message is a reply to:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 742
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 293 of 314 (843203)
11-14-2018 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Diomedes
10-25-2018 2:42 PM


Deal almost ready?
Looks like May and her advisers have a draft of a potential new deal that seems to have been endorsed by the EU representatives. Now she has to get it to pass in parliament:

quote:
Theresa May's most senior ministers are deciding whether to back the draft EU withdrawal agreement in a crucial cabinet meeting.

The meeting inside 10 Downing Street is thought to be over-running by as much as two hours.

The prime minister is expected to make a statement afterwards, with the EU publishing the withdrawal documents if it gets the green light from London.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46203425

The more right wing conservatives could still try to block it. But it definitely appears as though they may be on the verge of an agreement that satisfies Brussels.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14495
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 294 of 314 (843228)
11-15-2018 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 293 by Diomedes
11-14-2018 1:26 PM


Re: Deal almost ready?
The big issue is the Irish “backstop” which is handled by keeping the entire UK in the Customs Union until the Irish border is sorted. That may appease the Unionists but the Brexiteers will hate it. Especially as the U.K. can’t unilaterally end it, as they wanted

I doubt that they will be happy about the 21 month transition period - or that there is an option to extend it - either.


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Tangle
Member
Posts: 6250
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 295 of 314 (843229)
11-15-2018 4:32 AM


Woops, Brexit Secretary has resigned. Now it'll get sticky.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by Pressie, posted 11-15-2018 4:49 AM Tangle has not yet responded
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 Message 298 by PaulK, posted 11-15-2018 5:20 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1919
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 296 of 314 (843230)
11-15-2018 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Tangle
11-15-2018 4:32 AM


Interesting times ahead.

It's basically 'may the road come up to meet your face' for everyone (no pun intended for Theresa or Jeremy or Boris or Joe or Nigel or any other politician).

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2018 4:32 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1919
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 297 of 314 (843231)
11-15-2018 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Tangle
11-15-2018 4:32 AM


Oh and Jeremy. He's been awfully quiet. His party is just as divided and most of his party's staunchest Labour seats got HUGE majorities for Brexit and HUGE majorities against Brexit (Trump speak). Jeremy is too scared to say anything.

It's going to be fun and games.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Tangle, posted 11-15-2018 4:32 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14495
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 298 of 314 (843232)
11-15-2018 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Tangle
11-15-2018 4:32 AM


Three gone already
In addition to Raab, Vara (Minister of State at the Northern Ireland Office) and McVey (Work and Pensions Secretary) have resigned. Vara went before Raab.

The Brexiteers are pulling out. The next question is whether they will try to replace May or just vote down the deal.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Pressie, posted 11-15-2018 5:33 AM PaulK has responded
 Message 302 by Diomedes, posted 11-15-2018 9:58 AM PaulK has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1919
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 299 of 314 (843233)
11-15-2018 5:33 AM
Reply to: Message 298 by PaulK
11-15-2018 5:20 AM


Re: Three gone already
I don't think that a deal satisfying most people can be reached. Their only realistic long-term deal that can work is for Britain to abandon Northern Ireland.

Then years of violence in Northern Ireland and bombs in London till the Catholics in Northern Ireland can outbreed the Protestants in years to come and become a majority in about 20 to 30 years as current figures show will happen.

That's about it.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by PaulK, posted 11-15-2018 5:20 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 14495
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 300 of 314 (843234)
11-15-2018 5:55 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by Pressie
11-15-2018 5:33 AM


Re: Three gone already
I called it nearly a year ago. Message 238
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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