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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 539 of 1184 (842399)
10-30-2018 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Percy
10-28-2018 5:02 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
It is a fact, not bias, that firearms are extremely dangerous and deadly.
Firearms are extremely deadly in the hands of trained people.
No firearm by itself is extremely dangerous. If you can find me an example where a firearm got the shells out of the box inserted them in the magazine loaded one in the chamber and discharged killing someone or wounding someone I will agree with you that firearms are extremely dangerous.
Until then I will believe that the person holding a firearm is responsible for what the firearm does, not the firearm.
The same thing goes for automobiles. It is the driver that is responsible for what the automobile does.
Percy writes:
You've made this argument before. The answer hasn't changed. Transportation is essential to any economy. Guns are not.
My guns are just as essential to my peace of mind and to my ability to protect my family and myself and friends. As cars are to the survival of the human race.
Mankind got by without automobiles for over at least 5,000 years.
But mankind would not be here if he had not had weapons to defend his family and himself and provide food for the table. They didn't have the supermarket to run to and get food, like you do.
Percy writes:
True. Would that guns were regulated as tightly as motor vehicles.
Weapons have been around a lot longer than cars have.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Percy, posted 10-28-2018 5:02 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 540 by Straggler, posted 10-30-2018 8:06 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 543 by Percy, posted 10-31-2018 9:31 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 541 of 1184 (842407)
10-31-2018 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 540 by Straggler
10-30-2018 8:06 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Motor vehicles are tightly regulated on the basis that they are essential but potentially deadly. Should guns be at least as equally well regulated?
You must be talking about England not the US.
I lived in the Cayman Islands which is a British Colony for 15 years. And yes the automobiles were regulated a lot better than they are in the Us.
The government sets regulations for the auto makers to build the cars to specific specifications.
They post speed laws. Against the law to speed.
They require you have insurance. Against the law if no insurance.
They require you have a license to drive. Against the law to drive if no license.
No driving intoxicated or under the influence of drugs.
We have over 250 million cars in America.
We have over 5 million reported auto wrecks per year and about 10 million unreported.
We have 10's of thousands of people who drive without insurance and license's and have wrecks all the time.
If you are going down the road and obeying the speed limit everybody will be going by you and some flying by you doing 80, 90 or a 100 mph.
29 people die every day in the US in an automobile accident due to a alcohol-impaired driver.
That is 10,585 per year.
In 2014 there was 248 death by rifle.
It took drunk drivers only 8.55 days to accomplish that.
A study done in 2013 showed violent gun violence was 49% less than in 1991.
So what is the real problem with firearms?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Straggler, posted 10-30-2018 8:06 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 542 by Straggler, posted 10-31-2018 9:06 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 545 of 1184 (842501)
11-02-2018 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 542 by Straggler
10-31-2018 9:06 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
So - I ask again - What would be the problem with guns being equally well regulated?
Seat belts, do not stop automobiles from having wrecks.
speed limits, even when obeyed do not stop automobiles from having wrecks.
insurance requirements, don't stop automobiles from having wrecks whether a person is covered or not.
licensing, Putting a tag on the vehicle don't stop automobiles from having wrecks.
registration, being on record don't stop automobiles from having wrecks.
You purchase a gun from a licensed dealer and it will be registered today. Nothing stops someone from taking a registered gun and killing someone with it.
A license is required to carry a concealed weapon. But nothing keeps a person without a license from concealing a weapon on his/her person and then using it to kill someone.
As you can see government rules and regulations don't stop automobile wrecks from happening and gun laws don't stop guns from being used to kill people.
Both require an operator for them to be operate.
Fix the humans and you will fix the problem.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 542 by Straggler, posted 10-31-2018 9:06 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Straggler, posted 11-02-2018 9:24 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 551 by Percy, posted 11-02-2018 6:05 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 546 of 1184 (842502)
11-02-2018 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 544 by ramoss
11-01-2018 10:38 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ramoss,
ramoss writes:
I am fairly sure you don't use an AR-15 to do your hunting.
I don't even own an AR15 I classify them as toys.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 544 by ramoss, posted 11-01-2018 10:38 AM ramoss has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 548 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 12:10 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 552 by Percy, posted 11-02-2018 6:25 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 549 of 1184 (842536)
11-02-2018 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 548 by ringo
11-02-2018 12:10 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
So your claim about guns being "tools" was false.
Guns are tools. I classify an AR15 as a toy. I have no use for one. Therefore I don't own one. I have fired an AR15.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 548 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 12:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 566 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:06 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 550 of 1184 (842537)
11-02-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by Straggler
11-02-2018 9:24 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
So - Again - Why not regulate guns to the same extent as automobiles?
What laws are applied to automobiles that are not applied to guns?
There are guns that it is against the law to own.
I don't know of any automobile that it is against the law to own. Even the street legal ones that will do 250 mph.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 547 by Straggler, posted 11-02-2018 9:24 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Straggler, posted 11-03-2018 1:26 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 567 of 1184 (842679)
11-05-2018 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 566 by ringo
11-04-2018 1:06 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
That's a silly distinction. An AR15 is a gun. If guns are tools, then an AR15 is a tool whether you have any use for one or not.
You have your opinion of what the AR15 is and I have my opinion.
I don't play with dangerous toys, and no one else should.
But those that do have a constitutional right to do so. If people don't like it they can change it.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 566 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:06 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 569 by Percy, posted 11-05-2018 8:15 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 574 by ringo, posted 11-05-2018 11:20 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 570 of 1184 (842685)
11-05-2018 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 569 by Percy
11-05-2018 8:15 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy
Percy writes:
Guns are toys to you gun nuts.
Percy quit jumping to conclusions.
I said an AR15 to me was a toy. That means it would be something to go out in the woods and shoot up a bunch of trees with. Problem is you can't eat trees and I don't shoot things I can't eat. The only exception to that is if someone was trying to kill me.
There are weapons that are a lot more dangerous than an AR15. It just happens that the AR15 is the one the looney's choose to use.
Percy writes:
homicide and suicide
Most homicide's and suicides are performed with a pistol. Which is much more efficient than a AR15 would be. You could really hurt yourself with a AR15 without killing yourself.
Percy writes:
(which, of course, excludes hunting rifles).
The AR15 is classified as a rifle and can be used for hunting. But I would not recommend it for that purpose. In fact I would not recommend it for any purpose other than to show off.
Percy writes:
I can only guess, since you haven't responded to my Message 551 and Message 552, that you are ignoring me.
Percy it is hard to have a conversation with somebody that is continually calling you a liar, a fool, and an idiot by their insinuations.
Percy writes:
You seem to believe gun registration important since you mentioned your belief that any gun purchased at a gun shop is automatically registered,
I went to a gun show Saturday. They had 25 people that were conducting background checks on people. The people would fill out the papers and then wait for the results to came back. If they cleared the background check they were allowed to purchase the weapon they were trying to buy. If they failed the background check they were not allow to purchase the weapon. By law these papers must be destroyed within 24 hours.
It is against the law for a state of Federal gun registry to be kept.
I would not be in favor of a State or Federal gun registry being kept as that could then be used to confiscate weapons.
I know you trust our government to do things in our best interest.
I don't trust politicians any further than I can throw them. They go to Washington with good intentions and after a few years they are just as corrupt as those that have been there 40 years.
I could trust them a lot more if they went to Washington served one term being paid the same as an enlisted man in the army and then going back to their regular life.
There has been over 5 billion dollars spent on the mid-term election. That money was spend expecting a ROI. (return on investment)
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 569 by Percy, posted 11-05-2018 8:15 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 580 by Percy, posted 11-05-2018 1:28 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 571 of 1184 (842687)
11-05-2018 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 551 by Percy
11-02-2018 6:05 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy
Percy writes:
Is there anyone, not just in this thread but anywhere in the world, who has claimed that seat belts prevent motor vehicle accidents? No, of course not. Then why are you saying such a silly thing?
Straggler had put forth seat belts as a regulation on automobiles.
Insinuating that guns have no regulations.
Cars are to be built to certain specifications and so are guns.
The specifications of the car will not stop it from having a wreck.
The specifications of the gun will not stop it from being used to kill someone.
The human involved is the problem with both causing over 80,000 deaths per year in the US.
All I was trying to do was to show that government rules do not stop the activities of people in the use of autos or guns.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Percy, posted 11-02-2018 6:05 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 573 by frako, posted 11-05-2018 10:54 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 582 by Percy, posted 11-05-2018 2:04 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 572 of 1184 (842688)
11-05-2018 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 552 by Percy
11-02-2018 6:25 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Percy,
Percy writes:
You just never give up saying incredibly stupid things.
If you will look at your chart below this statement you will see a total kill number of 243.
You will see a total number injured of 631.
There are many weapons that could have been used and the dead number would have been much greater. Depending on the shooter there could have been in the range of 500 or even 600 dead.
That is the reason I classify the AR15 as a toy. Not that it can't sling a lot of lead.
A slingshot with pre-WW2 red rubber and broke cast iron is pretty good for killing squirrels. It just does not have the killing power of a 22 rifle. The AR15 would classify as the slingshot compared to the 22 rifle when compared to many weapons that are available.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by Percy, posted 11-02-2018 6:25 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 583 by Percy, posted 11-05-2018 2:36 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 575 of 1184 (842695)
11-05-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 573 by frako
11-05-2018 10:54 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi frako,
frako writes:
Well they do stop drivers without licences.
A law does not stop anybody from doing anything.
It is against the law to kill people. Does that stop people from killing?
It is against the law to drive without a license. Does that stop people from driving without a license?
Maybe where you live laws stop people from being people and doing whatever they want to do. But where I live laws are just an inconvenience.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 573 by frako, posted 11-05-2018 10:54 AM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 576 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2018 12:25 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 577 of 1184 (842698)
11-05-2018 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 574 by ringo
11-05-2018 11:20 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
You have made it clear in this thread that a gun in your hands is dangerous.
It is only dangerous to animals if I am hunting for them for meat.
It is only dangerous to humans if they are trying to harm or kill me or someone in my presence.
Other than that it is just like the pen I carry in my shirt pocket, a tool to be used when necessary.
ringo writes:
Two hundred years ago, the constitution allowed you to own slaves. Decent people didn't do it just because they could get away with it.
Sure they did and most of them were not in the political party of Lincoln.
A little known fact, in 1650 Anthony Johnson who was a free negro who owned a 250-acre farm in Virginia during the 1650s, with five indentured servants under contract to him. One of them, a black man named John Casor, claimed that his term of service had expired years earlier and Johnson was holding him illegally. In 1654, a civil court found that Johnson in fact owned Casor’s services for life, an outcome historian R Halliburton Jr. calls one of the first known legal sanctions of slavery other than as a punishment for crime.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 574 by ringo, posted 11-05-2018 11:20 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 579 by ringo, posted 11-05-2018 1:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 578 of 1184 (842699)
11-05-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 576 by Tangle
11-05-2018 12:25 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
It's called deterrence and it works.
I didn't say that laws did not deter honest people from doing bad things.
I did say: "A law does not stop anybody from doing anything."
People break all kinds of laws and usually justify their action by blaming some event or person for their actions.
There is one lawmaker that if you break His laws you will be brought to justice and you will pay for the rest of eternity. I know you don't believe that but that is your problem.
People do what they choose to do regardless of what the law says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 576 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2018 12:25 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 581 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2018 1:31 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 586 of 1184 (842712)
11-05-2018 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 579 by ringo
11-05-2018 1:21 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
Unless the wespon is locked up and the ammunition is locked up separately, it is never safe.
That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. That is a good thing about America.
ringo writes:
That's your stated position on gun ownership.
They did change the constitution didn't they.
You don't like the law change it. But that is a pretty high mountain to climb. It only takes 13 states to defeat any such amendment.
I believe I have a constitutional right to own and bear arms.
I do not apologize for my position. In 72 years of owning and using guns I have never harmed anyone by my owning or carrying my weapons.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 579 by ringo, posted 11-05-2018 1:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by Pressie, posted 11-06-2018 4:11 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 595 by ringo, posted 11-07-2018 11:03 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 590 of 1184 (842721)
11-06-2018 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Pressie
11-06-2018 4:11 AM


Re: Today's carry package:
Hi Pressie
Pressie writes:
Those people who died in Florida and Las Vegas and Pittsburgh aren't really able to have an opinion to offer. They don't even live in America anymore. Wonder if that's a good thing (for them).
quote:
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Everybody believes the first part of that quote but don't want to accept that fact. So they are trying every way possible to figure out how to cheat the death angel.
The second part of that quote no one wants to believe so they have decided to relegate God to the dust bin of myths and refuse to believe in Him.
Just about everyone here are concerned with those who die from assault style weapons forgetting that we must die due to some cause.
Every 4 seconds 7 people die.
Every 60 seconds 105 people die.
Every hour 6,316 people die.
Every day 151,600 people die.
Every year 55.3 million people die.
Every year 40 to 50 million pregnancies are terminated.
Where is the outrage about all these deaths?
Everyone is going to die it is just a matter of how and when.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by Pressie, posted 11-06-2018 4:11 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by Pressie, posted 11-07-2018 6:48 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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