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Author | Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
You cannot wave away the record of all time and human experience and call it imaginary for no reason.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Says you. I'll go with Jesus, thanks. The Gabriel of the bible is not the Gabriel Mohamed supposedly met. You can believe whatever you like.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
False prophesy all you like. I will go with the already proven prophesy of God in His word, thanks.
Lurkers, note the sort of things that the avid supporters of origin sciences claim here...you should get the idea of what spirit is really behind things.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9 |
You cannot wave away the record of all time and human experience and call it imaginary for no reason. I can wave away imaginary fiction. You have no knowledge of "the record of all time and human experience."What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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JonF Member (Idle past 169 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
You keep using that word "assumption". I do not think it means what you think it means.
The constancy of how the Universe works is a conclusion. References already supplied
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1406 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
... There are children of God, and children of Satan. ... How do you know you are one and not the other? This is one of the fundamental aspects of education -- how do you know what you (think you) know? How do you validate it? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1406 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Nothing is tested about nature in the far past actually. ... Every time we make a measurement of something from the past (C14, star light spectra, etc), we are testing the past and the nature of that past.
... The models are constructed assuming it was the same. ... Nope. When the results show similarity to the present we conclude it was the same. We conclude this because it is the best explanation for the results showing similarity to today. This is a great thing to teach in school -- how conclusions are reached based on evidence, and what those conclusions tell us about the past and the present.
... You test here and now. ... It's kind of hard to test elsewhere and elsewhen when we are here and now. Your assertions are here and now, and you have no knowledge nor evidence of things being different elsewhere and elsewhen. You make an assumption that it is different based on a fantasy belief that the earth is young. This runs counter to the evidence. When we teach children, one of the important things is to teach them how to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, what tools to use, what validation process to use.
... You use religion for tests, because it is only belief that says nature was the same. ... Nope. We use conclusions based of the results of searching to find differences in the past and not finding any significant differences in the ways things (C14, light spectra, etc), happen. You keep confusing religion and belief with conclusions, because that is the way you think, the way you reinforce your beliefs is through religion and belief. Another great teaching point: being able to understand what you are talking about so that you can make valid statements, premises, conclusions, versus just making wild assertions.
... Proceeding as if it was the same without proving it is wasting time and indulging in beliefs. ... Proceeding as if it was the same because that has not been invalidated in spite of serious effort to do so is how science works: you proceed on the basis of conclusions reached until - and only until - those conclusions are invalidated. Talking about fantasy alternate worlds is a waste of time and indulging in beliefs, and yet this is what you propose in place of science. Again, an important thing to teach is being able to discern between factual results and fantasy/imaginary results.
... All correlations based on that are circular and belief based. You keep saying this, but methinks you do not know what circular reasoning is. Correlations occur because two different measurement systems reach the same conclusion. Neither system uses the any element of the other to reach their conclusions (which would be circular). If either measurement system was prone to error or was wildly inaccurate then the correlations would not occur. Again, this is a perfect example of what should be taught in school -- how to reach valid conclusions from the evidence, rather than just making claims based on belief and ignorance. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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creation writes:
The death of creationism isn't prophecy. It's history. Haven't you heard the news? There's no creationism in schools.
False prophesy all you like. creation writes:
If you want to talk prophecy, we have threads on that. I will go with the already proven prophesy of God in His word, thanks.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Jesus.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Your false prophesy is of no worth.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
You are in no position to call the records of people long ago fiction. Personal incredulity. Prove it.
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creation Member (Idle past 1943 days) Posts: 654 Joined: |
Every time you take a measure of something from the past you are looking at it here. Always.
So we do not need your assumption of what nature was like. Either you know, or not. You claim to look for differences in light spectra from the past, the thing is there is only light coming in now. The elements it reveals cannot tell us what time is like out there. You must know what time is like to claim billions of years. You only measure things here. Your claims of the far universe having the same time are science fiction. Totally unrelated to any factual evidence. You talk of two different measurement systems. Too bad for you ALL your systems stem only from ONE belief. Molesting evidences of two types with that belief is not two systems, it is two molestations.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1025 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Lurkers, note the sort of things that the avid supporters of origin sciences claim here...you should get the idea of what spirit is really behind things. Maybe if you used quotes lurkers would find it simpler to follow what your short non-sequitius were referring to. Edited by caffeine, : No reason given. Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9 |
You are in no position to call the records of people long ago fiction. Personal incredulity. Prove it. Sure I am. I know that you cannot even start to prove that it is not fiction. I have been watching you. So far, all you have done is is post barely coherent assertions about fictional stories and characters and pure fantasies from your uneducated mind. I don't know where or if you went to school, but if you did you should sue.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1406 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
RAZD Message 1236: ... There are children of God, and children of Satan. ... How do you know you are one and not the other? This is one of the fundamental aspects of education -- how do you know what you (think you) know? How do you validate it? creation Message 1239: Jesus Strangely, that does not answer the questions. Please tell me where Jesus specifically talks about a change in nature -- not your interpretation of parts of the bible but where Jesus is recorded as specifically talking about a change in nature.
Every time you take a measure of something from the past you are looking at it here. Always. So we do not need your assumption of what nature was like. Either you know, or not. We've already covered this, they are conclusions from the evidence, not assumptions. The evidence shows the same types of tree rings indistinguishable from the types of annual rings today: conclusion - they are annual rings, and counting them gives the age/s in years. Every test on the tree rings, from C14 levels to matching historical events has only confirmed they are annual rings.
You claim to look for differences in light spectra from the past, the thing is there is only light coming in now. The elements it reveals cannot tell us what time is like out there. You must know what time is like to claim billions of years. You only measure things here. No, we look at light spectra here and now, and we see the same patterns of light bands in the spectra that match the patterns of elements here and now:
quote: Each element has their own unique pattern of light bars because of the quantum physics of energy states. When we see the same pattern, we see the signature of those elements. Each element has multiple bands, one for each energy state that produces a photon emission. The star light we are seeing them in is from far away in the universe, and thus there is some red shift in the position of the emission spectrum bands, due to the expansion of the universe. We observe the emission bands, we observe that the pattern of bands and gaps match specific elements here on earth, we observe that they are shifted towards the red end of the spectrum, we observe that this is consistent with great distance and the expansion of the universe. We conclude that this confirms the current model of the universe.
... You must know what time is like to claim billions of years. ... Nope, we only need to conclude that the observations are consistent with the current model of the universe and that the red shift is consistent with great distance and the expansion of the universe.
Your claims of the far universe having the same time are science fiction. Except that the evidence supports the conclusion of similar time, as modeled with relativity.
You talk of two different measurement systems. Too bad for you ALL your systems stem only from ONE belief. ... So tell me again how this "ONE belief" affects the Egyptian chronology and the tree rings and results in multiple correlations of dates in the Old Kingdom and afterwards. Be specific:
Demonstrate your claim instead of just repeating it. Because this is what should be taught in school -- how to demonstrate that a claim is valid. But you won't, because this is just a fantasy of yours, not reality, and you can't demonstrate evidence that does not exist. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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