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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 728 of 1677 (842422)
10-31-2018 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 725 by Phat
10-31-2018 1:00 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
Just the fact that they were punished by death for such an offense is reason enough to ignore and oppose that entire platform. I don't care who the leader is.
If someone told me that I would somehow be punished for not surrendering all that I owned, I would oppose such a person and platform and ideology 100%.
I'm sure you would. You've been poisoned by right-wing politics to the extent that you would defy God. After all, the "platform" that you're so vehemently opposed to was instituted by Jesus and enforced byGod Himself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 725 by Phat, posted 10-31-2018 1:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by Phat, posted 10-31-2018 1:08 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 730 of 1677 (842424)
10-31-2018 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 726 by Faith
10-31-2018 1:02 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
Peter would not have talked about how he had complete control over his land, meaning the right to dispose of it at will, if he was doing anything wrong with respect to that fact.
And yet he did. What part of AND do you not understand?
The only relevance of the "right" to the land is to underline the fact that God's law supersedes Roman law.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by Faith, posted 10-31-2018 1:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 731 of 1677 (842425)
10-31-2018 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 729 by Phat
10-31-2018 1:08 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
Says the guy who believes neither exists!
My beliefs don't change the meaning of the English language. The Bible says what it says.
And Shakespeare said, "Methinks you and Faith protest too much." Deep down, I suspect that you can see the truth.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by Phat, posted 10-31-2018 1:08 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 732 by Phat, posted 10-31-2018 1:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 733 of 1677 (842452)
10-31-2018 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 732 by Phat
10-31-2018 1:40 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
The problem, as you yourself would have accused us of, is when someone claims truth through one message over another.
I don't claim "truth" of any message. I happen to agree with Jesus' message about helping each other - because it works. It makes the world a better place.
Phat writes:
So even if you can claim that this message says what it says, you have provided no reason why such a message should be accepted.
Where did I say it should be accepted? I do wonder why people would claim to accept Jesus when they reject His message.
Phat writes:
There is no place on earth where all of the people are expected to surrender all that they have to a central governing authority.
And I have suggested no such thing. The instruction is to believers and no central governing authority has been mentioned. Get your head out of the right-wing propaganda.
Phat writes:
The point of contention is whether the governing authority should have the right to force me to give.
No it isn't.
Phat writes:
. I see no truth in being forced to fork it over in reality.
Nobody has suggested you should be forced to do anything. At best that's a strawman; at worst, it's an outright lie.
Phat writes:
You have been poisoned by Left Wing ideology.
It's what the Bible says.
Phat writes:
Far far left.
You have no clue, do you?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by Phat, posted 10-31-2018 1:40 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 737 of 1677 (842524)
11-02-2018 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Faith
10-31-2018 11:50 AM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
But the narrator, the writer of the Book of Acts, Luke, and Peter, both say he'd lied, so just because Ananias himself says nothing at that point we know he lied.
Of course there was no explicit lie. The "lie" would appear to be more along the lines of a broken promise. They had agreed to give everything and they had reneged on that agreement. Broken promise, breach of contract, lie....

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Faith, posted 10-31-2018 11:50 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 754 of 1677 (842662)
11-04-2018 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 739 by Faith
11-02-2018 7:43 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
People who think the Bible is fictional have no sense whatever of what it takes to write fiction, no sense of the different qualities of fiction versus reportage etc.
That's ironic coming from somebody who thinks a talking snake is "reportage".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by Faith, posted 11-02-2018 7:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 755 by Phat, posted 11-04-2018 4:04 PM ringo has replied
 Message 757 by Faith, posted 11-04-2018 4:46 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 767 of 1677 (842691)
11-05-2018 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 755 by Phat
11-04-2018 4:04 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
You cant simply claim that any envelope can just as easily hold your letter.
Sure I can. If you get a bill in the mail, does it matter what colour the envelope is? What matters is that you pay the bill.
Phat writes:
The messenger is the message, for the messenger contains the message.
Nope, still false, no matter how many times you repeat it. The message was already here. That particular messenger was just a reminder. (We are currently in a postal strike in Canada. If my bills don't come, I'm still responsible for paying them. I might have to use a different messenger, such as the Internet, but the amount owing is the same.)
Phat writes:
You claim that I want to belong to a club where I don't even accept the message. But this is not true.
Putting the messenger ahead of the message is not accepting the message.
Phat writes:
I'm not as stingy as you think...
I don't think I've ever said you were.
Phat writes:
...I'm just selective over how I give.
I have said that being "selective" is often an excuse for being stingy.
Giving a dollar to a panhandler is more than just a down payment on a sandwich or a beer. It's treating him like a human being. They seem to like that.
Phat writes:
I don't trust that I will be taken care of.
Then vote wisely. Never trust a politician who promises to cut taxes.
Phat writes:
Is the library within walking distance from your house? Where do the locals gather to socialize?
The library is a ten-minute walk from my house. I have a dozen or so "library friends" that I know only at the library. The library encourages it to be a gathering place. (Imagine kids gathering to play computer games. It isn't as quiet as it used to be but we have to move with the times - resources aren't what they used to be.)
Edited by ringo, : Spellin.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 755 by Phat, posted 11-04-2018 4:04 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 768 of 1677 (842692)
11-05-2018 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 757 by Faith
11-04-2018 4:46 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
You might want to look up the word "ironic."
I did. There was a picture of somebody believing that talking snakes are factual.
Faith writes:
I do believe there was a snake that communicated to Eve. Simple factual reporting.
You're being dishonest. If you saw a newspaper article about a talking snake you wouldn't believe it for a second.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 757 by Faith, posted 11-04-2018 4:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 772 by Faith, posted 11-06-2018 3:19 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 769 of 1677 (842693)
11-05-2018 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 760 by Faith
11-04-2018 4:56 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
First of all it's based on your refusal to accept what the account actually says, that lying to the Holy Spirit is the reason the couple died.
quote:
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Faith, posted 11-04-2018 4:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 777 of 1677 (842753)
11-07-2018 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 772 by Faith
11-06-2018 3:19 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Faith writes:
The Bible is not a newspaper.
That's what I'm telling you. You're the one who said it was simple factual reporting.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by Faith, posted 11-06-2018 3:19 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 794 of 1677 (843208)
11-14-2018 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 789 by GDR
11-13-2018 9:04 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
GDR writes:
The basic point though is that the God we see whose Word or nature is perfectly embodied by Jesus wouldn't have done nor commanded their death, whatever actually happened.
To me, it seems pretty clear from a plain reading of the text that God killed them.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by GDR, posted 11-13-2018 9:04 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 795 by GDR, posted 11-14-2018 8:12 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 798 of 1677 (843242)
11-15-2018 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 795 by GDR
11-14-2018 8:12 PM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
GDR writes:
The thing is though that in reading it that way we then have to reject the idea that Jesus perfectly embodied the nature of God.
I'm fine with that. It's what the text says. If the text doesn't support your theology, you should change your theology, not mangle the text.
GDR writes:
A plain reading of the teaching of what we have from Jesus throughout the Gospels, and the Epistles for that matter, show that such an action would be completely foreign to the nature of God.
But it's completely compatible with the Old Testament and Jesus affirmed the Old Testament.
GDR writes:
With this in mind we have to look for another explanation rather that the plain reading.
If the text doesn't support your theology, you should change your theology, not mangle the text.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by GDR, posted 11-14-2018 8:12 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 801 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 11:37 AM ringo has replied
 Message 811 by GDR, posted 11-15-2018 1:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 799 of 1677 (843243)
11-15-2018 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 797 by Phat
11-15-2018 7:44 AM


Re: Plain Text vs Revised Criticism
Phat writes:
People claim that the Bible was made up anyway, so what difference does it make who comments or adds to the plain reading?
Surely you can figure that out for yourself. Long John Silver was made up but that doesn't give the reader leeway to believe that he escaped by flying saucer.
Phat writes:
Are you suggesting that sticking to plain textual interpretation is the only "true" belief?
The Bible is the only source of your belief. If it wasn't for the Bible, you would never have heard of Jesus. You wouldn't know where the "communion" in your head was coming from. So throwing out the Bible leaves your belief on pretty shakey ground.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 7:44 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 800 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 11:35 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 802 of 1677 (843250)
11-15-2018 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 800 by Phat
11-15-2018 11:35 AM


Re: Plain Text vs Revised Criticism
Phat writes:
We believe that the Word was the Word long before it was written down.
That's irrelevant. The only evidence you have of what the Word ever was is what is written down.
Phat writes:
We also believe that Jesus existed long before the Bible was even written.
Also irrelevant. The only evidence you have that He ever existed is what's written down.
Phat writes:
We dont believe that it would be impossible to hear of or know of Jesus without the book...there have been many global converts who were simply told the story.
They were told the story from the book. Unless you have better examples than that, your belief doesn't hold any water.
Phat writes:
... believers don't limit their understanding of God or Jesus to the book.
That's the problem. Your belief is made up despite what the book says.
Phat writes:
My point is that belief is what people individually and collectively decide that it is.
That's the problem. Imagine what would happen if you just made up phone numbers, not limiting yourself to what the phone book actually says.
Phat writes:
Otherwise, the majority of the church would agree with jars warped theology...
It's funny how you have to go through contortions to avoid the "warped" theology that's actually in the Bible.
Phat writes:
Obviously, the vast majority of Christians do not believe these things to be true.
I don't think that's obvious at all.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 11:35 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 804 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 11:52 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 803 of 1677 (843251)
11-15-2018 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 801 by Phat
11-15-2018 11:37 AM


Re: Giving It All Up and Urging Everyone To Do Likewise
Phat writes:
Who says?
Anybody with any sense.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 801 by Phat, posted 11-15-2018 11:37 AM Phat has not replied

  
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