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Author Topic:   Creation
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1016 of 1482 (841237)
10-09-2018 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1015 by ICANT
10-09-2018 8:03 PM


Re: Creation
The jury is not out on the existence of gravity. There are no Jesons.
Your definition is appropriate for some circumstances and inappropriate for others, such as relativistic analyses. It is an incomplete definition.
You've admitted that the units with which we measure time are arbitrary and chosen for convenience:
[qs] The Egyptians used the base 12 number rather than our base 10 number as they liked the base 12[/quote]
And the map is not the territory. Time exists and we measure it.
Do you have a point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1015 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2018 8:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1018 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2018 9:03 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1022 of 1482 (841257)
10-10-2018 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1018 by ICANT
10-09-2018 9:03 PM


Re: Creation
What are Jesons
Infinitesimal Jesus's holding all the subatomic particles in the Universe in place. There's a picture but I can't find it now.
Why do you think my definition is wrong for relativistic analysis?[/qs] For the reason I gave in the message to which you replied. Expanding, in relativistic analysis, time is just a coordinate in space-time. There is no duration. There is the "interval", which subsumes what we call duration.
But you can not measure time.
If you think so explain what it is that you are actually measuring.
Interesting question, but no answer is required to know that we are measuring something. As when we measure the rate at which an object falls. Did Galileo know what he was measuring?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1018 by ICANT, posted 10-09-2018 9:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 4:32 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1030 of 1482 (841273)
10-10-2018 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1028 by ICANT
10-10-2018 4:32 PM


Re: Creation
space-time does not exist, there is only existence. If you are measuring something you have to know what you are measuring it with.
Yes, but you do not have to know the fundamental nature of what you are measuring.
If you are measuring something you have to know what you are measuring it with.
I don't know if Galileo knew he was trying to measure the duration from release to stop. But I will assume he was trying to figure out how long it took from the time he turned it loose until it stopped. He was a smart man.
Yes he was, but that wasn't the point of the experiments. They were about gravity. He did not know what gravity or time are at a fundamental level. And yet he measured both. It seems reasonable that when you can measure something repeatedly, replicate measurements and experiments, and develop a coherent theory of how it acts exists whether or not we know what that something is.
As Galileo didn't know and we still don't know despite knowing a lot more about them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 4:32 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 10:06 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1039 of 1482 (841310)
10-11-2018 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1033 by ICANT
10-10-2018 10:06 PM


Re: Creation
You can't swap the two methods so you do need to understand a little about what you are measuring
Yep. We do understand a little. We know we can measure something repeatedly, replicate measurements and experiments, and develop a coherent theory of how it acts. That's enough.
So Galileo was trying to figure out why something dropped.
You really should not shoot your mouth off about the many things of which you are totally ignorant.
No, Galileo was not trying to figure out why something dropped. He was trying to characterize in what manner things dropped under different circumstances. Part of developing a coherent theory of how it acts. As we have done for time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by ICANT, posted 10-10-2018 10:06 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1040 of 1482 (841311)
10-11-2018 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1038 by creation
10-11-2018 9:26 AM


Re: Creation
The sun rose also when a year was 360 days. Looking at the sun rise now will not tell you how long a year used to be.
Congratulations! That's true.
That's also why nobody is stupid enough to look at the Sun rising now and trying to figure out how long a day was in the past.

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 Message 1038 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:26 AM creation has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1126 of 1482 (841948)
10-24-2018 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1125 by creation
10-24-2018 10:09 AM


Re: Creation
X acts as Y, therefore Z acts as Y. Yeah, that's logical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1125 by creation, posted 10-24-2018 10:09 AM creation has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1152 of 1482 (842380)
10-30-2018 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1150 by creation
10-30-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Creation
It is not unscriptural to suggest that a lot of upheaval, continental separation along with mountains being pushed up, happened after the time of the flood actually
And it's not scriptural.
Actually, there's no evidence for it anywhere. But there's gobs of evidence it didn't happen that way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1150 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:52 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 2:03 PM JonF has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1183 of 1482 (842565)
11-02-2018 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1177 by ICANT
11-02-2018 5:35 PM


Re: Creation
Still confusing the units we chose (arbitrarily) with what is being measured.
The map is not the territory.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1177 by ICANT, posted 11-02-2018 5:35 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1187 by ICANT, posted 11-04-2018 1:54 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 1188 of 1482 (842625)
11-04-2018 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1187 by ICANT
11-04-2018 1:54 AM


Re: Creation
The numbers are chosen by mankind arbitrarily that we use to measure anything with.
Yes, that was my point, except it's the units that are are arbitrary, not the number of units we get when we measure something.
But we are measuring something with those arbitrary units.
You asked:
What or who determines what an inch is? or a foot? or a yard?
Who determines the length of a second?
Today, official governmental or international standards bodies implementing arbitrarily chosen standards. In the past, whoever was in charge.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1187 by ICANT, posted 11-04-2018 1:54 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1196 by ICANT, posted 11-05-2018 1:35 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1197 of 1482 (842684)
11-05-2018 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1196 by ICANT
11-05-2018 1:35 AM


Re: Creation
Still confusing the units with what is being measured. The map is not the territory. The arbitrary units are not what is being measured.
The fact that we can measure time shows us that time exists independent of our measurements.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1196 by ICANT, posted 11-05-2018 1:35 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1200 by ICANT, posted 11-05-2018 2:32 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1202 of 1482 (842709)
11-05-2018 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1200 by ICANT
11-05-2018 2:32 PM


Re: Creation
Please explain to me what it is that you measure that is time?[
You're repeating yourself. Same answer as before. Time means different things depending on your point of view. We don't have to understand it completely to measure it.
What do you use to measure time with?
Various instruments, including clocks. SFW? What we measure we call "time". No matter what it is it exists.
As I posted to Stile a second is the Standard International ( SI ) unit of time. It is not something you measure but something you measure with
The second is just a unit. It is not what we measure nor is it what we measure with. A second is a label for a certain amount of time.
Time, the instruments with which we measure time, and the labels we use for particular amounts of time are three different things. You continue to conflate all three into lne
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1200 by ICANT, posted 11-05-2018 2:32 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1206 of 1482 (842719)
11-06-2018 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1205 by Pressie
11-06-2018 4:02 AM


Re: Creation
Yup. But it is mildly interesting to accurately elucidate such fundamental principles.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1205 by Pressie, posted 11-06-2018 4:02 AM Pressie has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1209 of 1482 (842728)
11-06-2018 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1204 by ICANT
11-06-2018 1:40 AM


Re: Creation
Time is what is used to measure duration between events in existencee
Still confused. Time is what is measured. Clocks are what is used to measure duration between events in existence.
But how can you measure time when you can't tell me what it is?
With clocks. No problem.
Because units of time is what is used to measure that duration.
Clocks are what is used to measure that duration. Units of time are labels that we use to record the length of a duration.
You measure duration with a clock...
Yes. But that is not what you said above.
... which uses units of time
Clocks do not use units of time in the measurement process. They report the results in units of time, but that's an auxiliary function. Clocks can measure time without reporting anything, such as a timer on an explosive with no display but set to a time chosen randomly generated by random radioactive decay. It measures the time until the explosion, but doesn't report anything and nobody knows or can find out the duration of that time.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1204 by ICANT, posted 11-06-2018 1:40 AM ICANT has not replied

  
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