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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 560 of 1184 (842588)
11-03-2018 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 558 by Percy
11-03-2018 8:53 AM


Re: Another Shooting
Mass shootings forcing Americans to train for battlefield life-saving procedures

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 558 by Percy, posted 11-03-2018 8:53 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 589 of 1184 (842720)
11-06-2018 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 581 by Tangle
11-05-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Today's carry package:
Maybe you need to listen to your favorite poem! There is still hope, Tangle.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 581 by Tangle, posted 11-05-2018 1:31 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by Tangle, posted 11-06-2018 11:59 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 604 of 1184 (842851)
11-09-2018 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 602 by vimesey
11-09-2018 8:15 AM


Re: What happens in the rest of the world.
The BBC has quite a few interesting articles about guns and gun control.
To wit:
What If All Guns Disappeared? Take the politics out of it. By the numbers, what would we gain — and lose — if all firearms suddenly were wiped off the face of the planet?
Is There A Link Between Mass Shootings And Mental Illness? That assumption is further reinforced each time a new mass shooting takes place, inevitably followed by calls for mental healthcare reform. But what does the evidence say about the relationship between mass shooters and mental illness? Are these acts of violence really a mental health problem?
I like the BBC. They have well-written articles.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 602 by vimesey, posted 11-09-2018 8:15 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by vimesey, posted 11-09-2018 9:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 720 of 1184 (849173)
02-27-2019 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 719 by marc9000
02-26-2019 11:19 PM


Re: Are you sane and stable? How do you know?
I can see your argument. My only comment is that so much of the debates that I hear on a daily basis focus on Liberals vs Conservatives, Democrats vs Republicans...etc...as if one side actually thinks of themselves as the superior human prototype. It gets tiresome to see all arguments framed this way. I mean yes...one can argue that had we no liberals, things would be different...but I would fear a society made up of nothing but conservatives. Do you see my point?
(and the reverse is true as well)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 719 by marc9000, posted 02-26-2019 11:19 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 722 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2019 8:28 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 725 of 1184 (849451)
03-10-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 723 by marc9000
03-09-2019 10:01 PM


Re: Are you sane and stable? How do you know?
marc writes:
I wasn't necessarily referring only to my age group, and as far as "who mandated", of course no one does, but the problem I see is that people who are largely inactive often like to see active people like myself restricted in my activities by government mandates. It's a human nature thing called jealousy.
Thumbing your nose at the idle liberals is also a human nature thing called Greed. It reminds me of a Bernie Sanders joke.
I bet it grinds your gears to have to share. Let them eat cake, right?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 723 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2019 10:01 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 727 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2019 8:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 743 of 1184 (850131)
04-02-2019 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 742 by Percy
03-21-2019 6:40 AM


Check this out
Comments?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 742 by Percy, posted 03-21-2019 6:40 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by Percy, posted 04-02-2019 9:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 769 of 1184 (852194)
05-08-2019 10:34 AM


Not In My backyard!
1 Student Killed, 8 Injured In Colorado School Shooting
This one was in my backyard. Whose backyard will the next one be in? And as a Christian, I ask myself if these shootings are a symptom of a society on a collision course with sober reality and if we have any secular solutions apart from the beliefs which I have.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 840 of 1184 (869459)
12-30-2019 3:59 PM


Texas Church Shooting II
Breaking this morning is this story from Texas:
River Oaks Man Identified as Gunman in White Settlement Church Shooting More will undoubtedly come out, but the records show that it was a transient white male with prior convictions and who used a shotgun. Two were killed. A church security guard took him out.
Two notable quotes:
  • "I was so surprised because I did not know that so many in the church were armed," Isabel Arreola said, telling the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that she was sitting near the gunman, had never seen him before and that he "made her uncomfortable."
  • Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton Hopes More Churches Will Prepare, Train for Shootings
  • Man Who Shot Church Gunman Says He ‘Killed an Evil,’ Not a Human
    Maybe there is something about churches and religion that attracts these deranged people. As Percy will point out, however---the common denominator is that they all have firearms, even after being cited for illegal possession of the same years ago.
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.
    Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"We, humans, are engaged in an ongoing war of ideologies. I see it in this microcosm of EvC Forum just as I see it in the governments and attitudes of people throughout the world. Take your pick: Oppression or Seduction .
    "~Thugpreacha
    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
    As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.
    ? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

  •   
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 855 of 1184 (886211)
    05-10-2021 3:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 854 by jar
    05-10-2021 11:54 AM


    Re: Big Guns
    While not a gun afficionado and informed owner such as you are, Percy has no doubt seen many articles and news videos on these exact weapons.

    As ballistics experts explain how an AR-15 bullet could shatter bone and destroy organs, doctors push for civilians to become first responders.
    Sixty minutes made this one.
    I know how you want to argue that no guns should be banned, but explain to us why a 9mm couldn't achieve the same level of whatever it is you wanted from a gun?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 854 by jar, posted 05-10-2021 11:54 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 856 by dwise1, posted 05-10-2021 5:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 857 by jar, posted 05-10-2021 6:38 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 858 of 1184 (886215)
    05-10-2021 7:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 850 by Percy
    05-10-2021 7:21 AM


    News From Colorado
    I checked the local news for the latest info about that Colorado Springs shooting. It took me awhile to find it as there were at least two and maybe as many as three other shootings locally that had happened since then. Turns out the shooter, known only as "Junior" always carried a handgun and was described by others as "nothing unusual about him".

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 850 by Percy, posted 05-10-2021 7:21 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 859 by Tangle, posted 05-11-2021 1:45 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 870 of 1184 (886239)
    05-11-2021 4:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 866 by jar
    05-11-2021 10:08 AM


    Re: Big Guns
    whenever you start sounding arrogant, its a sign that your fleshly entitlement issues are at work. Do try and be humble. You might even like it.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 866 by jar, posted 05-11-2021 10:08 AM jar has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 879 of 1184 (886252)
    05-12-2021 12:25 AM
    Reply to: Message 869 by jar
    05-11-2021 4:02 PM


    Re: Violence and root causes.
    jar writes:
    The gun is NOT the problem, it is the society and lack of social support.
    What type of social support do you suggest?
    ringo writes:
    The problem is a society that wants guns.
    So how do we educate,inspire, and discipline this society that wants guns? Some of us resist a government that forces laws on us.
    Tangle writes:
    ...you need to ban GUNS, not brands, not calibers, not sub-categories of 'platforms'. Take guns out of circulation.
    That would make it harder for people to quickly kill each other, but jar has a point in that the social root causes of the insanity remain. Plus, I doubt he would ever let go of the right to bear arms.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 869 by jar, posted 05-11-2021 4:02 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 883 by Tangle, posted 05-12-2021 3:03 AM Phat has not replied
     Message 885 by jar, posted 05-12-2021 7:00 AM Phat has replied
     Message 889 by ringo, posted 05-12-2021 10:06 AM Phat has replied
     Message 903 by Percy, posted 05-13-2021 11:04 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 887 of 1184 (886262)
    05-12-2021 9:44 AM
    Reply to: Message 885 by jar
    05-12-2021 7:00 AM


    Right To Bear Arms Re-examined
    jar writes:
    The gun is NOT the problem, it is the society and lack of social support.
    You have heard the phrase that the pen is mightier than the sword. For the sake of argument, one could say that bad ideas indirectly kill or cripple as many or more people than do guns. Would you argue that banning all guns is as silly as banning all pens?
    How would you defend the right to bear arms in today's modern and dysfunctional society? What are some reasons to keep this freedom intact? How could we do it while making the streets safer?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 885 by jar, posted 05-12-2021 7:00 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 888 by jar, posted 05-12-2021 10:02 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 902 by Percy, posted 05-13-2021 10:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 890 of 1184 (886265)
    05-12-2021 10:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 889 by ringo
    05-12-2021 10:06 AM


    Re: Violence and root causes.
    Perhaps, but we cant simply have 51% of the people voting in laws that 100% are required to follow. It is my argument against mandatory reparations that jar questions the problem with. 49% of us do not believe that white Christians were the problem that reparations and rewriting History are supposed to help solve.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 889 by ringo, posted 05-12-2021 10:06 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 892 by xongsmith, posted 05-12-2021 3:36 PM Phat has replied
     Message 893 by ringo, posted 05-12-2021 5:21 PM Phat has replied
     Message 905 by dwise1, posted 05-13-2021 6:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 895 of 1184 (886277)
    05-13-2021 8:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 894 by jar
    05-13-2021 6:49 AM


    Understanding Jar
    One of my favorite things to do, even though it often frustrates and annoys many of my peers--is to figure out the emotional appeals and likely dynamics of one making an argument. So let me take a wild guess at two characters. jar and Percy.
    jar likely was initiated into an inner sanctum where men learned to handle guns and viewed them as a responsibility and charge rather than a social or cultural right. Likely it was his father. the gun became a symbol of responsibility and maturity. Add to this the fact that the right to bear arms is constitutionally protected. The honest way to approach jar on these subjects is to present a reasoned argument as to why the constitution should be changed. Keep in mind that he feels responsible for defending the constitution in these matters. Emotional and logical appeals based on gun violence will fail to persuade him.
    Percy has some skills at gathering facts from the news media which show that gun violence is a very real problem both among police and citizens. He tries to appeal to common sense and rationality. A good argument but it wont move the NRA. Especially the inner sanctum who feel guns to be an ongoing symbol of responsibility and sacred defense of the constitution. The only way to reach them is in court, where one needs a skilled attorney on behalf of the people who will challenge the sacred aura and the social responsibility.
    Even then, the laws are constitutionally enforced.
    So jar....be honest. If there was a movement trying to change the constitution, would you automatically fight it? Would you defend the constitution no matter what the proponents of changing it argued?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 894 by jar, posted 05-13-2021 6:49 AM jar has not replied

      
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