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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1021 of 1498 (842916)
11-10-2018 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1016 by Faith
11-09-2018 5:05 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Faith writes:
The evidence for the Flood is scientific fact
There IS evidence for *a* flood.
quote:
Marine archaeologists have found the first evidence of a people who perished in a great flood of the Black Sea that has been linked with the story of Noah's ark.
Using robot underwater vehicles more than 300ft below the sea's surface, they have begun to map a rolling landscape, fed by meandering streams and marked with wattle and daub houses, that was flooded more than 7,000 years ago.
The discovery was announced yesterday by Robert Ballard, the scientist who discovered the wrecked Titanic.
The Black Sea was once a freshwater lake, well below sea level. About 7,000 years ago, according to geological evidence, the rising Mediterranean sea pushed a channel through what is now the Bosphorus, and then seawater poured in at about 200 times the volume of Niagara Falls. The Black Sea would have widened at the rate of a mile a day, submerging the original shoreline under hundreds of feet of salty water.
Evidence found of Noah's ark flood victims | Science | The Guardian

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1016 by Faith, posted 11-09-2018 5:05 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1022 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2018 8:07 AM Tangle has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 1022 of 1498 (842919)
11-10-2018 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1021 by Tangle
11-10-2018 2:37 AM


An actual catastrophic flood ...
There IS evidence for *a* flood.
Indeed there is evidence of many small floods as well as of sunken cities (due to sea level rise and land sinking after volcanic eruptions and which occurred over periods of years). Annual floods of major river flood plains also leaves records of flooding (Egypt, Nile delta sediments for instance).
But none of these floods were world wide events.
Certainly the Black Sea flood was catastrophic compared to these common floods, and certainly it is the best evidence of a factual flood behind the myths of great floods (Gilgamesh, Atra-Hasis, bible, etc).
Of course the mythical parts (gods, building a boat, saving all types of animals, world wide flooding) are typical of epic stories embellishing actual events.
Certainly there was no evidence of a genetic bottleneck of all world wide species ... or even of domestic animals ... at that time period.
What we have is a lack of correlation between biblical myth and actual evidence of floods.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .
Edited by RAZD, : ..
Edited by RAZD, : ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1021 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2018 2:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1023 by Tangle, posted 11-10-2018 8:35 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1023 of 1498 (842920)
11-10-2018 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1022 by RAZD
11-10-2018 8:07 AM


Re: An actual catastrophic flood ...
RAZD writes:
But none of these floods were world wide events.
Sure, that's why I said *a* flood and not *The* Flood(TM)
It's pretty obvious that a real huge cataclysmic flood at that time would have been passed down in legends for generations.
So the evidence for a global flood doesn't exist (and if it did, it would be obvious everywhere we looked) whilst the evidence that it didn't is beyond reasonable doubt and we have a credible reason why the myth exists. Game over.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1022 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2018 8:07 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1024 of 1498 (842922)
11-10-2018 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1016 by Faith
11-09-2018 5:05 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Faith writes:
The evidence for the Flood is scientific fact, you know, actual sedimentary deposits, actual fossils in the bazillions, not any of your wacko stuff.
The evidence for floods is obvious. There is no justification for extrapolating many floods into one Flood.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1016 by Faith, posted 11-09-2018 5:05 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2018 11:08 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1025 of 1498 (842923)
11-10-2018 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1024 by ringo
11-10-2018 10:56 AM


Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
The evidence for floods is obvious. There is no justification for extrapolating many floods into one Flood.
There is also no evidence of a flood topping the White Mountains for the last 9,000 years (see Message 2) because the growth there is not disrupted.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1024 by ringo, posted 11-10-2018 10:56 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1026 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:11 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 1056 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 11:58 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1026 of 1498 (842955)
11-11-2018 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1025 by RAZD
11-10-2018 11:08 AM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
If the high mountains were pushed up after the flood, why would there be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1025 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2018 11:08 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1028 by ringo, posted 11-11-2018 1:13 PM creation has replied
 Message 1044 by RAZD, posted 11-11-2018 4:34 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1027 of 1498 (842956)
11-11-2018 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1008 by edge
11-08-2018 9:15 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Yes we may refer to the current nature when talking about current things. It exists now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1008 by edge, posted 11-08-2018 9:15 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1041 by edge, posted 11-11-2018 2:33 PM creation has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1028 of 1498 (842957)
11-11-2018 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by creation
11-11-2018 1:11 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
creation writes:
If the high mountains were pushed up after the flood....
They weren't. There is nothing in the Bible or reality to suggest that they were.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:11 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1033 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:24 PM ringo has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1029 of 1498 (842958)
11-11-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1009 by edge
11-08-2018 9:18 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
If the flood was about 4500 years ago, and a living tree had more rings than this...those are the rings you need to detail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1009 by edge, posted 11-08-2018 9:18 PM edge has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1030 of 1498 (842959)
11-11-2018 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1010 by RAZD
11-09-2018 8:06 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
You show a picture of tree rings from 50 BC? Ha. You are defeated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1010 by RAZD, posted 11-09-2018 8:06 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1036 by Phat, posted 11-11-2018 2:05 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1031 of 1498 (842960)
11-11-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1011 by Faith
11-09-2018 4:14 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Not all sediment came from one year though. Some of the uplifted mountains with fossils on them could have been from pre flood seas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1011 by Faith, posted 11-09-2018 4:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1032 of 1498 (842961)
11-11-2018 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1020 by Tanypteryx
11-09-2018 7:14 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
How about the KT layer? Iridium is said to come from deep below the earth, and from space...exactly where the waters of the flood came from.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1020 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-09-2018 7:14 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1037 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-11-2018 2:12 PM creation has replied
 Message 1038 by edge, posted 11-11-2018 2:18 PM creation has not replied
 Message 1043 by Faith, posted 11-11-2018 4:30 PM creation has replied

  
creation
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 1033 of 1498 (842962)
11-11-2018 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1028 by ringo
11-11-2018 1:13 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
We do know all the mountains will be flattened one day by the bible. The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology.
If we accept that there was continents separating and mountain building from science, then it had to have occurred somewhere in the framework laid out in Scripture.
The question becomes, when is the best fit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1028 by ringo, posted 11-11-2018 1:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1034 by ringo, posted 11-11-2018 1:34 PM creation has replied
 Message 1035 by Phat, posted 11-11-2018 2:03 PM creation has replied
 Message 1039 by edge, posted 11-11-2018 2:25 PM creation has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1034 of 1498 (842963)
11-11-2018 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by creation
11-11-2018 1:24 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
creation writes:
We do know all the mountains will be flattened one day by the bible.
Again, you can not use speculations about what might happen in the future as evidence that something happened in the past.
creation writes:
If we accept that there was continents separating and mountain building from science, then it had to have occurred somewhere in the framework laid out in Scripture.
On the contrary, we know it didn't. Separation of the continents and building of the existing mountains happened long before the 6000 years ago that the earth was supposedly "created".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:24 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1058 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 12:01 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(2)
Message 1035 of 1498 (842966)
11-11-2018 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1033 by creation
11-11-2018 1:24 PM


Re: Many floods, but no World Wide Flood
We do know all the mountains will be flattened one day by the bible. The history in that book deals with man and God. Not detailed physical geology.
One could argue that the main point is our relationship with God and with each other. Whether God flattens mountains or spins straw into gold has no bearing on our relationship with Him.
What I want to know from Creationists (Faith in particular) is how they answer the question of no observable genetic bottleneck amongst all living (and dead) creatures. This would naturally be present in the context of a global flood.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1033 by creation, posted 11-11-2018 1:24 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1040 by edge, posted 11-11-2018 2:26 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1042 by Faith, posted 11-11-2018 4:23 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1057 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 12:00 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 1060 by creation, posted 11-13-2018 12:03 PM Phat has not replied

  
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