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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1169 of 1482 (842504)
11-02-2018 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1156 by Tangle
10-31-2018 4:54 AM


Re: Creation
Hi tangle,
tangle writes:
No oceans = no rain
No rain = no rivers
Why that conclusion?
If the head river was big enough to feed 4 rivers to water the entire earth there would have been enough evaporation to cause rain. You forgot the mist that came up from the ground that watered the earth.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1156 by Tangle, posted 10-31-2018 4:54 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1171 by Tangle, posted 11-02-2018 3:33 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1174 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-02-2018 12:37 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1170 of 1482 (842505)
11-02-2018 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1155 by ringo
10-30-2018 10:37 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
It isn't what I would have you believe; it's what the Bible says. There's nothing in Genesis to suggest that all of the land was in one place.
There is nothing in Genesis to suggest that there was more than one mass of dry land.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1155 by ringo, posted 10-30-2018 10:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1173 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 11:48 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1176 of 1482 (842538)
11-02-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by ringo
11-02-2018 11:48 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
And we know from reality that all of the land is NOT in one place.
Who said it wasn't scattered all over the place. The earth was divided in the days of Peleg.
Do you contend that there was never a time when there was one land mass?
Pangaea comes to my mind.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by ringo, posted 11-02-2018 11:48 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1192 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:31 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1177 of 1482 (842539)
11-02-2018 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1175 by Stile
11-02-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
I agree with ringo - To say or imply that length is real, but time is only a human-invented-concept is to misunderstand both.
What or who determines what an inch is? or a foot? or a yard?
Who determines the length of a second?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1175 by Stile, posted 11-02-2018 1:31 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1183 by JonF, posted 11-02-2018 7:44 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1198 by Stile, posted 11-05-2018 9:42 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1187 of 1482 (842622)
11-04-2018 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1183 by JonF
11-02-2018 7:44 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon
Jon writes:
Still confusing the units we chose (arbitrarily) with what is being measured.
No I am not confusing the units of measurement we have devised to use to give us length width height or depth. with what they are used to measure.
Neither do I confuse what a clock measures with what is being measured.
A clock is a device devised to measure the duration between events in existence.
But you did answer my question when you said: "we chose (arbitrarily)"
The numbers are chosen by mankind arbitrarily that we use to measure anything with.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by JonF, posted 11-02-2018 7:44 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1188 by JonF, posted 11-04-2018 8:37 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1196 of 1482 (842680)
11-05-2018 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1188 by JonF
11-04-2018 8:37 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
Today, official governmental or international standards bodies implementing arbitrarily chosen standards. In the past, whoever was in charge.
So mankind decides what the units of measure is. Applies that to an application and gets a result.
Therefore time is a concept of mankind devised to measure the duration between events in existence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1188 by JonF, posted 11-04-2018 8:37 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1197 by JonF, posted 11-05-2018 9:01 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1199 of 1482 (842704)
11-05-2018 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1198 by Stile
11-05-2018 9:42 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Stile
Stile writes:
Seconds are a concept of mankind devised to measure the duration of time between events in existence.
What are seconds?
quote:
The second (abbreviation, s or sec) is the Standard International ( SI ) unit of time.
What is a second (s or sec)?
According to that a second is a unit of time.
This unit of time is what is used to measure the duration between events in existence.
So explain to me how you can measure a unit of time with a unit of time.
Stile writes:
Time and length exist regardless of us measuring them.
You can measure the duration between events with units of time.
But what is this time that you can measure it?
Stile writes:
Just as the time it takes to build something.
There is duration in existence between the start of building something and the finish of building that something. That duration is what is measured in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years.
You seem to be equating duration and time as the same thing.
Stile writes:
Do you think length is real?
Sure length is just as real as duration between events is real.
Time is what you measure duration between events with.
So what is the problem?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1198 by Stile, posted 11-05-2018 9:42 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1201 by Stile, posted 11-05-2018 3:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1200 of 1482 (842705)
11-05-2018 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1197 by JonF
11-05-2018 9:01 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Jon,
Jon writes:
The fact that we can measure time shows us that time exists independent of our measurements.
Please explain to me what it is that you measure that is time?
What do you use to measure time with?
As I posted to Stile a second is the Standard International ( SI ) unit of time. It is not something you measure but something you measure with.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1197 by JonF, posted 11-05-2018 9:01 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1202 by JonF, posted 11-05-2018 3:12 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1203 of 1482 (842713)
11-06-2018 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1192 by ringo
11-04-2018 1:31 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
I'm pretty sure you have. Isn't that your misinterpretation of Genesis 1:9-10?
I said that in Genesis 1:9, 10 all the dry land was in one place.
But during Peleg's lifetime the earth was divided and yes it was scattered to where it is today. Genesis 10:25.
ringo writes:
It was the people who were divided:
You tell me the earth was not divided in the days of Peleg but the people.
So why did Moses say in the next chapter:
quote:
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD H3068 scattered them abroad H6327 from thence H8033 upon the face H6440 of all the earth: H776 and they left off H2308 to build H1129 the city. H5892 .
I put the strongs numbers in just in case you wanted to look the meaning of the words up for yourself.
scattered H6327 יפץ is Qal perfect and means to be dispersed, be scattered
quote:
Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber H5677 were born H3205 two H8147 sons: H1121 the name H8034 of one H259 was Peleg; H6389 for in his days H3117 was the earth H776 divided; H6385 and his brother's H251 name H8034 was Joktan. H3355
divided H6385 פלג is Qal Perfect and means to divide, split. This Hebrew word is used only 4 times in the Hebrew text. Genesis 10:25 and 1 Ch. 1:19 which state the same thing. In Job 38:25 divided watercourse, and Psa. 55:9 David asking God to divide the peoples tongue.
Does יפץ look like פלג?
Two different words with two different meanings no way to mix them up.
quote:
Genesis 11:6 And the LORD H3068 said, H559 Behold, the people H5971 is one, H259 and they have all one H259 language; H8193 and this they begin H2490 to do: H6213 and now nothing H3808 H3605 will be restrained H1219 from them, which they have imagined H2161 to do. H6213Genesis 10:32 These are the families H4940 of the sons H1121 of Noah, H5146 after their generations, H8435 in their nations: H1471 and by these were the nations H1471 divided H6504 in the earth H776 after H310 the flood. H3999
divided H6504 פרד Qal Perfect and means to separate, divide.
Does פלג and פרד look like the same word? They are not and are used differently.
ringo writes:
You can't pick an arbitrary time period and pretend that it corresponds with "the beginning".
You quote Wikipedia saying one land mass did exist.
Then you tell me I can't pick an arbitrary time period nd pretend that it corresponds with "the beginning".
I am not talking about the dry land mass being in one in the beginning. There was no ocean then only a river big enough to supply enough water for 4 rivers that went out to water the whole earth.
But the dry land mass I am talking about was not that long ago. You state Pangea began to break up 175 million years ago. What proof do you have it was 175 million years ago?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1192 by ringo, posted 11-04-2018 1:31 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1210 by ringo, posted 11-07-2018 11:27 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1204 of 1482 (842714)
11-06-2018 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1201 by Stile
11-05-2018 3:00 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Stile,
Stile writes:
The same way you measure a unit of length with a unit of length.
Just how do you do that?
Stile writes:
You can measure the distance between locations with units of length.
Yes, inches, feet, yards, and miles. And while you are doing that measuring duration will take place. You can measure that duration with a time piece, (watch) to determine how long it took for you to measure between the two locations.
Stile writes:
It's a fundamental property of reality.
Just like length.
I know that is what you have been taught and believe.
So tell me what fundamental property of reality is time that you can measure it with a clock, or a ruler, or a tape measure?
Stile writes:
If length is real, so is time... since they're treated exactly the same as you've been showing us.
I have not treated time and length the same.
Length is something you can measure with a tape measure.
Time is what is used to measure duration between events in existence.
Stile writes:
As you've just described "duration" here... duration and time are the same thing.
You can measure duration between events in existence. You have to use units of time to measure duration.
But how can you measure time when you can't tell me what it is?
Stile writes:
What makes you think time is not "the duration between the start of building something and the finish of building that something?"
Because units of time is what is used to measure that duration.
Stile writes:
What makes you think time cannot be measured "in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years?"
Because seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, and years are units of time.
Stile writes:
Obviously, as you're proving to us, time and length are both treated exactly the same.
No length and time are not treated the same.
Length can be measured with a tape measure.
Duration between events in existence can be measured with watches and clocks.
Stile writes:
Sure time is just as real as distance between locations is real.
Then give me a definition of time. What is it that you can measure it?
Stile writes:
Length is what you measure distance between locations with.
No you measure the distance between locations with units of length. Such as inches, feet, yards, and miles.
Stile writes:
Duration sure sounds like time to me.
Distance sure sounds like length to me.
Doesn't seem to be any problem at all.
But duration is not time. You measure duration with a clock which uses units of time. Which mankind derived from a complete rotation of the earth relative to the sun. He divided that rotation up into seconds, minutes and hours. The units that is used to measure duration between events in existence.
But distance is not length. You measure the distance with units of length. A tape measure has units of length marked off on it. 1/64, 1/32, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1" 1' up to however many units of length you can put on the tape.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1201 by Stile, posted 11-05-2018 3:00 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1205 by Pressie, posted 11-06-2018 4:02 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1207 by Stile, posted 11-06-2018 9:58 AM ICANT has not replied
 Message 1209 by JonF, posted 11-06-2018 1:04 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1211 of 1482 (842786)
11-08-2018 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1210 by ringo
11-07-2018 11:27 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
And you're wrong. It doesn't say that. It says that all of the water was in one place.
The oldest map of the world shows a land mass surrounded by salt water, and dates to the 6th century BC.
Which would agree that the dry land was in one place.
ringo writes:
Genesis 11 tells the story of the Tower of Babel. It's pretty obvious that that's what was meant by dividing the earth. Nobody ever thought it meant a physical division of the land until continental drift was confirmed.
What difference does it make what people thought or think today. The only thing that matters is what the text says.
If you want to dispute what I said about the division of the earth and the separation of the people you will have to take the Hebrew language and show where the words mean the same thing.
The Hebrew word translated divided in Genesis 10:25 and the Hebrew word translated scattered in Genesis chapter 11 are two different words and do not mean the same thing.
Either dispute the text or admit that you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1210 by ringo, posted 11-07-2018 11:27 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1212 by ringo, posted 11-08-2018 11:18 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1234 of 1482 (843597)
11-19-2018 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1212 by ringo
11-08-2018 11:18 AM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
It's an inaccurate map. It doesn't show the Americas at all.
Who said the Americas existed at that time above water?
You know that is an inaccurate map because ----------------Fill in the blank.
ringo writes:
I'm talking about what the text says. It is clear from the text that The "division of the earth" in Peleg's time was the dispersion of languages from Babel.
You are manufacturing your own definitions of Hebrew words.
The Hebrew word in Genesis 10:25 says the land not people were divided.
What you are doing is taking what someone has said the Hebrew words means instead of looking them up for yourself.
ringo writes:
There's no point in trying to discuss Hebrew with you when you're so confused about English.
I have always been confused about English but I have never been confused about Biblical Hebrew.
ringo writes:
We already know that YOU don't know what you're talking about.
Then you should have no problem with taking the two Hebrew words being discussed in Message 1203 and show me how they mean the same thing when they are spelled different, and one of them is only used 4 times in the Bible.
If you can't do that then you are the one who does not know what they are typing about.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1212 by ringo, posted 11-08-2018 11:18 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1243 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 10:46 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1235 of 1482 (843602)
11-19-2018 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1226 by Son of Man
11-16-2018 6:26 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Son of Man,
Welcome to the fray.
Son of Man writes:
Genesis 1 to 2.2 is a future prologue to the whole Bible
Genesis 1:2 to Genesis 2:3 is not the opening of a story that establishes the setting, and gives background details.
The opening of the story is Genesis 1:1 in which God created the heavens and the earth.
The history of the day God created the heavens and the earth is given in Genesis 2:4 through Genesis 4:24. Which is all the information given about the origin of the universe.
Science it totally silent on the origin of the universe.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1226 by Son of Man, posted 11-16-2018 6:26 AM Son of Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1240 by Son of Man, posted 11-20-2018 4:41 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1236 of 1482 (843603)
11-19-2018 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1233 by ringo
11-19-2018 2:21 PM


Re: Creation
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
You still have it backwards. If you claim that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow, YOU are the one who needs a reason. If you claim that there was a "change in nature", YOU are the one who needs a reason.
The sun don't rise or set anywhere so why make such an outlandish statement?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1233 by ringo, posted 11-19-2018 2:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1244 by ringo, posted 11-20-2018 10:47 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1246 of 1482 (843710)
11-20-2018 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1241 by Arkangel Daniel
11-20-2018 4:44 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Daniel
Welcome to EvC.
Daniel writes:
Creation of the universe took 13 Billion years to make it look like it does today.
How do you know it took 13 billion years?
I believe creation of the universe took a lot longer than that. We have oil that is buried under over 5 miles of water and earth and is under 22,000 psi. Oil is called fossil fuel because it is made of decayed things. It took trillions trillions trillions of tons of material to produce the oil we have used and the reserves that still remain in the earth. The earth had to have the materials buried under the 5 + miles of overburden.
If you know how that could happen I would like to hear your input.
Daniel writes:
So creation is scientific and the process involves God's influence.
Creation is not a scientific process. Science is a study of the things in the universe that have been discovered with our limited knowledge and abilities about how God created the universe.
But most of the things you read about here and in books written about creation is based on assumptions. But very few facts.
If you have any facts about the origin of the universe and everything in it I would like to hear them.
Daniel writes:
The bible has a lot of inaccuracies and creation is one part that is in need to be fixed also there was never a talking snake or a tree with fruit that would make a person smarter.
Point out your inaccuracies of the original Hebrew and Greek text of the Bible. I would like to discuss them with you.
Animals talk. My cat tells us when we have not given her any attention for a spell. She tells us when her food is out and when her toilet needs cleaning. She even tell my wife when it is time to get up. So don't tell me animals don't talk.
As far as the tree making a person smarted you are depending on what the devil said to Eve through the serpent.
The man eating the fruit of the tree was disobedience of a command and because of his choosing to eat the fruit mankind was sentenced to death and was separated from God as God removed mankind from His Estate called the Garden of Eden.
That will do for starters.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1241 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 4:44 AM Arkangel Daniel has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1252 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 12:45 PM ICANT has replied

  
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