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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1280 of 2073 (843652)
11-19-2018 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1276 by creation
11-19-2018 1:50 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Since we do not have DNA from early man we can't use that. So what DO you have??
We DO have DNA from early humans and we have learned all sorts of things from it. And we can tell a lot about ancient humans and ancient animals by looking at the DNA of living humans and animals.
What do you have besides ignorance, fantasies and fiction? 466 posts from you and nothing but BS.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1276 by creation, posted 11-19-2018 1:50 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1281 by creation, posted 11-20-2018 1:41 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1287 of 2073 (843723)
11-20-2018 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1281 by creation
11-20-2018 1:41 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
Wrong. You have NONE from the pre flood or even early post flood era at all!
Gosh, you are so misinformed. We have a bunch and they are far more famous than you are.
The misdated (by your beliefs) remains of men you have are all post nature change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well the clues that are used to date fossils are reported when the fossils are described and when new dating methods are discovered they are published and used to check the dating on known fossils.
all post nature change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In all of history no one has shown any evidence of "nature change!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and besides we all know you just made that up. The extra exclamations are a dead giveaway that this is your imaginary, fictional fantasy.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1281 by creation, posted 11-20-2018 1:41 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1289 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:34 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1288 of 2073 (843729)
11-20-2018 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1282 by creation
11-20-2018 1:43 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
False.
Says the guy who has never read a science book.
They admit the fossils are a small portion of life that existed,
Yes, they conclude that most individual organisms do not become fossils and that many species do not become fossils.
but they also believe it represents the basic sort of life that lived then.
Incorrect. Scientists conclude that obviously the organisms that fossilized lived at that time and in that place. They also know that the fossils they find at any site represent an unknown fraction of the total number of organisms and species that lived there.
When fossil beds are discovered it is noted that the assemblages of species include species that are found at other sites as well as new unique species. This is exactly the same pattern that we see when observing living organisms in different modern habitats.
For example, there are precambrian fossils, and they think that they represent what lived!!!!!!!!
Yes they know the fossils represent some of the species that lived, but they also know that they do not represent ALL the species that lived then and there.
Be honest.
You have mis-characterized what science concludes from the fossil evidence, so I have corrected your ignorance, though I doubt you will get it.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1282 by creation, posted 11-20-2018 1:43 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1290 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:36 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1291 of 2073 (844098)
11-25-2018 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1289 by creation
11-25-2018 3:34 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
I daresay I think you have NO remains of any man before the flood, or even shortly after it. Your dates are wrong.
What you think does not change reality. So far you have not presented a shred of evidence to support your fantasy.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1289 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:34 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1294 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1292 of 2073 (844100)
11-25-2018 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1290 by creation
11-25-2018 3:36 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
When pictures are drawn, for example of the Cambrian world, we do not see lions and man and birds...etc etc.
What do we see? Animals that all lived in a marine habitat. Land plants had not evolved yet. No mammals, no birds, no land animals lived during the Cambrian. No etc etc ever walked the Cambrian world.
Face it. Those things lived at the time. Be honest about the sick models science posits of the past!
Be honest, you just pulled that out of your ass. Your imaginary, fictional fantasy is based on nothing but BS.
We have evidence, you have bullshit. You need to up your game, so far all you demonstrate is your ignorance.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1290 by creation, posted 11-25-2018 3:36 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1296 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:14 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1298 of 2073 (844191)
11-26-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1294 by creation
11-26-2018 1:09 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
From Message 1291:
Tanypteryx writes:
creation writes:
I daresay I think you have NO remains of any man before the flood, or even shortly after it. Your dates are wrong.
What you think does not change reality. So far you have not presented a shred of evidence to support your fantasy.
How is this an answer to that?
creation writes:
You have no evidence for your religious claims of dates that have been labeled science falsely.
Well, my claim is that you still fail to provide any evidence to support your imaginary, fictitious fantasy.
To clarify things for you, I have made no religious claims, nor any dates that have been labeled science falsely.
creation writes:
Bottom line, any claim that a fossilized or other remains of man is pre flood rests solely on your beliefs of a same nature in the past.
No one is claiming any remains are pre-flood. We are claiming there is not a shred of evidence of your flood. Your flood is fiction. Your beliefs about changes in nature are pure fantasies from your own muddled ignorance, nothing else at all ever.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1294 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:09 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1302 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:05 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1299 of 2073 (844192)
11-26-2018 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1296 by creation
11-26-2018 1:14 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:
That is not the way the bible says things happened.
The bible says nothing what so ever about the Cambrian. The bible is fiction, so it is not reliable.
creation writes:
Man and animals and birds were here also.
There were lots of species of animals in the Cambrian, but there were no humans or birds in the Cambrian. You are making up pure BS.
creation writes:
They just could not leave fossilized remains, most likely!
More made up BS.
creation writes:
That was the way it was back in that former nature for whatever reasons.
If there was a former nature you would not be able to make any claims about it.
Scientists report what they find in Cambrian deposits and there is no reason to pretend that your imaginary, fictional fantasy former nature is reality.
creation writes:
From dust early man was made, and to dust apparently (rather than fossilized remains) he returned!!!!!!
More made up BS.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1296 by creation, posted 11-26-2018 1:14 PM creation has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1305 of 2073 (844267)
11-27-2018 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1302 by creation
11-27-2018 2:05 AM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:
All science claims about origins are religious claims.
Can you list all the science claims about origins? You would need to do that if you are teaching that in the classroom.
creation writes:
It is those 'science' claims here that must be supported.
Especially if you are going to teach them in the classroom.
creation writes:
Not other beliefs!
Beliefs have no place in science classes.
creation writes:
There is all sorts of evidence for the past events you deny.
Well, then you should be able to present it to the class. You keep making empty claims about evidence, but the students would laugh you out of the class if you showed them what you claim is evidence.
creation writes:
Both the science evidences that you have misunderstood and contorted and violated,
I have not seen that you know any of the scientific evidence. I can imagine you in front of the class, "The science evidences are misunderstood and contorted and violated. The goat herders knew about stuff."
creation writes:
as well as historical, and Scriptural.
You have already demonstrated that you have no knowledge of history or scripture. Scripture is fiction and and only should be taught in lit class.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1302 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 2:05 AM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1306 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:40 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 1308 of 2073 (844282)
11-27-2018 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1306 by creation
11-27-2018 4:40 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:
Some people long to keep kids in the dark. We get it.
Some people want to teach kids religion and tell them it is science.
Some people want to teach imaginary, fictional fantasies as science.
Some people are uneducated boobs who should never be allowed to teach children anything, except to get a good education so people won't think you're an idiot like them.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1306 by creation, posted 11-27-2018 4:40 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1313 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1316 of 2073 (844374)
11-28-2018 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1313 by creation
11-28-2018 6:37 PM


Re: Conclusion vs Assumption, Belief, teach the difference
creation writes:
The fool's idea of a good education might involve teaching someone, for example, that they were not really the sex they were born with
What does this have to do with teaching evolution and religion in school?
I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.
creation writes:
and that there is no God and no creator.
I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.
creation writes:
The fools might want such an education to be mandatory.
I have never heard about anyone who advocates that.
creation writes:
Wise men and children have to navigate through the sewage, not drink it like fools!
Thankfully, your sewage is not allowed in public schools.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by creation, posted 11-28-2018 6:37 PM creation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1320 by creation, posted 12-01-2018 2:26 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1538 of 2073 (877881)
06-22-2020 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1529 by Kleinman
06-22-2020 4:24 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
What magic do you think applies to evolution to make reptiles evolve into birds and fish evolve into mammals?
You have repeated this question multiple times, erroneously implying that biology, and the theory of evolution conclude that mammals evolved from fish. Since you repeat it multiple times I assume you must be able to document that.
Lying about your opponent's position is not persuasive.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1529 by Kleinman, posted 06-22-2020 4:24 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1539 by Kleinman, posted 06-22-2020 9:23 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1549 of 2073 (877909)
06-23-2020 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1539 by Kleinman
06-22-2020 9:23 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
Lying about your opponent's position is not persuasive.
I'm not lying about this. You can find phylogenic trees all over the place drawn by biologists that claim this very thing. Here's one of a myriad of hits that I found with a simple search.
Well gosh, you found something on the web, great evidence! Peer reviewed, documented, and everything.
Everyone can see that your "evidence" DOES NOT show mammals evolving from fish.
Kleinman writes:
Of course, you are now going to explain how this evolutionary process works. And please show your math.
Of course not. You just demonstrated that you will continue telling porkeys about how evolution works. I think I will just point out your mistakes.
Now that I have pointed out one of your errors in what biologists think about the phylogeny of vertebrates, what is your hypothesis where mammals and birds came from?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1539 by Kleinman, posted 06-22-2020 9:23 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1551 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 11:52 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1579 of 2073 (878004)
06-24-2020 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1551 by Kleinman
06-23-2020 11:52 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Kleinman writes:
dwise1 writes:
Now that I have pointed out one of your errors in what biologists think about the phylogeny of vertebrates, what is your hypothesis where mammals and birds came from?
First off, David Wise didn't write that, I did.
Kleinman writes:
You better tell Taq that he is making an error because he thinks that fish evolve into mammals
I think you are misrepresenting his point, and if that is intentional you are a crackpot con man and if you don't understand his point, then you don't know Jack about evolution or the theory of Evolution.
and they are only 4 nodes apart
That makes a fish species a very, very, very distant ancestor of mammals, rather than your very, very, very, deceptive misrepresentation that fish evolved into mammals.
And I note that you still don't have the balls to propose an alternate explanation for the existence of mammals.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1551 by Kleinman, posted 06-23-2020 11:52 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1580 by Kleinman, posted 06-24-2020 5:13 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(2)
Message 1587 of 2073 (878015)
06-24-2020 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1580 by Kleinman
06-24-2020 5:13 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
I totally understand your desire to change the subject since you don't have the mathematical skills
You are the one who brought up the clearly erroneous "fish evolved into mammals" bullshit.
or experience to explain the evolutionary transitions of very, very close ancestors.
Actually, in reality you have no knowledge about my skills or experience.
You keep repeating the same silly mistakes in probability theory with regards to the evolution of all life on this planet over and over. You probably will not be able to tell us what they are though. Your math is incomplete and does not accurately model evolution.
It is not apparent to you and other members of your clique but it is apparent to the peer-reviewers and publishers of my papers and to the librarians at the National Library of Medicine.
Wow! I have dragonfly specimens in the national collection at Smithsonian, whoopdeedoo!
The real peer review is whether the scientific community applies you discovery or not. And whether they find it useful or valid. The number of citations would be a better indicator of that.
Most of the participants here really like to argue, but even more, they value the acquisition of knowledge, but when a rude, arrogant, condescending jerk with a huge chip on his shoulder shows up to demand we recognize the incredible breakthrough that only he could possibly ever understand, it is pretty likely he will be met with skepticism.
Add to that your repeated erroneous statements about what biologists actually say about how evolution takes place, even after being repeatedly corrected, leads to the inescapable conclusion that you are a deluded crackpot.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1580 by Kleinman, posted 06-24-2020 5:13 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1588 by Kleinman, posted 06-24-2020 7:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 1589 of 2073 (878023)
06-24-2020 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1588 by Kleinman
06-24-2020 7:25 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Don't be bashful, just say that mammals evolve into mammals.
Actually, I already know the phylogeny of mammals, but that's a bit too complicated for you.
Then you would finally get it right.
So, even though I have not listed any phylogeny of mammals, you have judged me incorrect. Nice demonstration of scientific reasoning.
With a few years of mathematical training, you might even be able to do the mathematics of evolution for the Kishony and Lenski experiments.
Well, so far you still cannot, but there is no reason I would want to. It has absolutely no relevance in my fields of study, but more importantly it will fail utterly to model the evolution of the species I study because it has a gaping flaw that a Mack Truck could drive though, without scraping the top, and you are so smug you cannot see it.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1588 by Kleinman, posted 06-24-2020 7:25 PM Kleinman has not replied

  
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