Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 90 (8876 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-17-2018 2:40 AM
188 online now:
GDR, Minnemooseus (Adminnemooseus), PaulK, Phat (AdminPhat), vimesey (5 members, 183 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Bill Holbert
Post Volume:
Total: 844,278 Year: 19,101/29,783 Month: 1,046/2,043 Week: 91/507 Day: 2/89 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1 of 4 (844214)
11-26-2018 7:17 PM


In this topic, I wish to discuss the hypothetical and actual ideas brought forth through believers and non-believers with an open mind alike as to the character of the Christian God of literature and oral tradition throughout History. In particular, I wish to discuss the ideas around free will, foreknowledge, human attempts to understand the plan, meaning of stories and legends and also what the apologists and popular preachers and teachers have added throughout the years. Believers, feel free to contribute anything you get from commentaries on the Bible, Calvinism, Philosophy, even your own freethought opinions. Yes, Tangle...in this topic we are freely making it all up...that's the guidelines....what sense can we make out of the idea of a Creator of all seen and unseen who chose to relate to humanity through a divine human character which we are charged to emulate? Lets start with a few quotes:

GDR writes:

I don't believe that God knows the future specifically. What I will have for lunch next Sunday is an unknown even to God. The future is open.

Faith writes:

Talking about God as "exercising" control makes him too much like us. God is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent, which means He can't NOT be in control of everything, and everything He does is precisely calibrated as the perfect response to everything that happens. By His very nature, He has power over all things down to the comma at the end of this phrase and all the atoms involved in its existence has foreknowledge of everything without exception, and is everywhere at all times, including surrounding you completely. The Bible presents God in human terms to make Him more understandable, but those terms are a concession to our inability to grasp such a Being as He really is.

Next, can everybody read this article defining Open Theism? A brief quote:
quote:
Open theism, also called free will theism and openness theology, is the belief that God does not exercise meticulous control of the universe but leaves it "open" for humans to make significant choices (free will) that impact their relationships with God and others. A corollary of this is that God has not predetermined the future. Open Theists further believe that this would imply that God does not know the future exhaustively. Proponents affirm that God is omniscient, but deny that this means that God knows everything that will happen.
In other words, for the guidelines in this discussion, God transcends time...but His Son allegedly was and is human...thus God also represents humanity at our level and within our times.

Next, for the sake of this particular argument, let's assume that we all are essentially making up God. This allows for participants such as Tangle to skip the task of proving that to us and to join the conversation as if we are arriving at a consensus on what God would be like in regards to humans. Participants can feel free to either use the Bible to state their case that God exists apart from human imagination and has a plan or vision of some sort concerning the fate of humanity. Or they can ascribe to Open Theism or they can simply go along for the ride, pointing out flaws in Theological Assertions and Arguments and why they disagree with God as defined in the conversation.

Percy Addressing GDR writes:

If Christianity is based upon a real person, there is no evidence it was a 1st-century person. Jesus could have been a BC person.

Also for the purpose of this discussion, let's assume that Jesus was and is Gods character yet was bound by the limits of time as we are. He was a product of His culture and times upon the earth.

If Jesus exists today,(or is defined as living and existing by participants) we can further argue that we are attempting to define Him and our responsibility and role with Him as believers by defining the character of God--as imagined/believed today. Unbelievers can also argue why they avoid Him. (keep in mind this is all based on a hypothetical)

Faith & Belief, please.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : clarification


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 11-26-2018 8:50 PM Phat has responded

Admin
Director
Posts: 12565
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 2 of 4 (844227)
11-26-2018 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
11-26-2018 7:17 PM


Could I suggest a title change to "A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism".

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 7:17 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 11-26-2018 9:38 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11642
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 3 of 4 (844228)
11-26-2018 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
11-26-2018 8:50 PM


Lets Get Hypothetical And Form A Consensus
Sure. Sounds good... I think my editing is finished on the topic starter.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 11-26-2018 8:50 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Admin
Director
Posts: 12565
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 4 of 4 (844339)
11-28-2018 11:56 AM


Thread Copied to Faith and Belief Forum
Thread copied to the A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism thread in the Faith and Belief forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2018