I wanted to start a topic with our resident Pastor ICANT. He has been a Pastor for many years and has conservative yet Biblically sound beliefs regarding GOD, Creator of all seen and unseen, and His Son Jesus Christ. First of all, I want to show public respect for this man, because he has stepped outside of his conservative church environment to talk with the liberal and moderate philosophies of this forum. I confess that I was curious what his church was like and so I found them online. Out of respect for Pastor ICANT, I won't share that information publically as that is up to him---but I DO want to start a conversation with him and allow it to develop before opening it up to responses from the rest of our forum.
quote:I CANT, I thought I would share with you an exchange that I had with my own Pastor, recently. He likely thinks much the same way that you do, and I know that his reply will be ridiculed here at EvC, but nobody here is as well known by me as he is, and I value his input.
This is the conversation I had with my Pastor here in Denver:
ME --my faith has been tested lately...I believe, but I don't believe in what people tell me I need to believe in. I believe that Jesus is Lord, that He is alive today and that He is Gods Son, Creator of all seen and unseen, but I do not believe in a word for word literal Bible...that stuff you guys teach about a literal Genesis and all that...makes no sense logically. I refuse to simply shut my eyes tight and declare that I believe THAT!
PASTOR--Thatís your pitfall. The foundation of our faith is in Genesis. If you donít believe that your foundation is built on sand and your faith will never be stable.
ME--I just have to be honest...I can't believe in something that is not logical. Ken Ham is not a strong Christian, by the way. The reason I come to bug you is that I believe that you are, but my issue is with God and not humans.(although some humans are willfully ignorant)
PASTOR--You want a creator who does things according to your logic. You fail to realize He is beyond what our brains can fathom.
ME--my intelligence is likely my downfall...I wish I could just have the trusting faith of a child, but I must be honest with myself and yes you have a point...
PASTOR--Your intelligence? Think about that statement. Your intelligence. Itís minuscule in comparison to an infinite God.
ME--I know. that I DO believe!
PASTOR--You.... you are your own issue. You have to learn the all-important lesson of dying to self.
I CANT writes:
Making the statement "Even if" is questioning God's existence.
The reason that I frame my statements that way is to present my belief the way that many people at EvC would understand. jar taught me the idea that God cannot be proven, thus to frame the issue as a belief against reality is more honest than to declare that what I believe is reality.
ICANT then responded:
How do you half believe? That does not seem logical. If you want to discuss your pastor's conversation I think it would be better to start a thread with this post you made. Put it under Faith and Belief. I think you have a problem believing Genesis 1:1. But if you can't believe Genesis 1:1 you won't believe the rest. But if you believe Genesis 1:1 you will have no problem with the Bible. But if you study the Bible you will find in the translations where man put his stamp on it which resulted in mistranslations of words. But the original autographs contain no errors.
If you believe the Bible teaches the junk that Ken Ham puts forth and all the other YEC'S you are going to have trouble with that as it does not agree with the Bible or reality and what can be observed. So if you would like to discuss what the Bible actually says start the thread as I suggested.
Great Debate, Please. I want to limit the conversation to myself and ICANT ONLY...for the first 50 or so posts. We can open it up to comments later.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ĖRC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ĖMark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity. In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile