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Author Topic:   What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist?
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1313
Joined: 12-22-2015


(1)
Message 1 of 12 (845783)
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


I was just attempting to understand what the heck got Dr. Jerome Corsi into the Mueller mess. I haven't been paying much attention to the political news in the past months (aside from the elections), and I only learned of the Corsi situation weeks ago. I immediately felt that there must have been an association with Roger Stone and that was how he somehow managed to get tangled up into this investigation.

I just found out that I was correct.

Corsi bragged, in 2017, that his 2016 articles were the spark that got Stone interested in WikiLeaks dumping the Podesta emails.

(It earned him multiple days of interrogation from the Mueller team.)

https://www.cnn.com/...i-plea-deal-robert-mueller/index.html

But Stone says he got tipped by a progressive associate of WikiLeaks.

https://www.cnn.com/...roger-stone-wikileaks-hack/index.html

(The alleged crimes, of ALL of these men, would be possible perjury, and not due to an association with WikiLeaks in and of itself)

I managed to start looking into the latest conspiracy theories, and got a bit off topic.

Vox had an article on some crazy stuff.But tucked into the solidly anti-conspiracy-theory article was this (sort of) nugget:

quote:

These postings were thrilling for people steeped in far-right conspiracy theory lore — from the very real Operation Mockingbird, a CIA effort to blackmail journalists and give out false information to share propaganda, to the wild theory that Huma Abedin, a former Hillary Clinton staffer and ex-wife of Anthony Weiner, was secretly working for the Muslim Brotherhood. (She wasn’t.)

https://www.vox.com/.../qanon-trump-conspiracy-theory-reddit


Mockingbird? What is this you say?

Here was article the the hyper link lead to:

quote:

How the CIA Paid and Threatened Journalists to Do Its Work

Americans love a good conspiracy theory, and plenty have been bandied about this election season. But what about conspiracy theories that turned out to be, well, not theoretical at all?

The CIA has long played the international game of propaganda required by an intelligence agency, but during the Cold War, the Agency paid and intimidated journalists into helping promote its messages. Famous Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein broke the story in 1977 for Rolling Stone. Bernstein revealed the workings of Operation Mockingbird, in which many journalists – included Pulitzer Prize winners – joined the CIA’s payroll, writing fake stories to disseminate the agency’s agitprop and providing intelligence. Other journalists were threatened and blackmailed into cooperating with Mockingbird, and many were given falsified or fabricated information about their actions in order to engender their support for the CIA’s mission. The program has never been officially discontinued.

Tom Cruise is back as Jack Reacher in Jack Reacher: Never Go Back, taking on a conspiracy of epic proportions in a fight for the truth. Don’t miss the action in theaters and IMAX, opening October 21

https://www.thedailybeast.com/...-journalists-to-do-its-work


(The 1977 Carl Bernstein RS piece can be found online)

The CIA is always very relevant when Jerome Corsi is the subject.

False news has always existed. Jerry Corsi is a right-wing type of guy, but he actually holds "left-wing" conspiracy theories such as the CIA killing JFK (which he says is a more important issue to him than anything) and the CIA being behind 9/11 2001. He just wrote a book that predicted Trump would be assassinated by the CIA due to his anti-war views. News Max has been promoting the book with mailers.

Jerry Corsi has been the conspiracy theorist that always gets major media attention.

2004

He wrote the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth book, Unfit For Command, which got major media attention.

2008

He was interviewed extensively (on every network!), during the campaign, once his book on Obama came out late in the race. He attempted to make the case that Obama was a Marxist.

2012 (or 2013, I forget)

The very day his book on Obama being foreign-born came out, Obama finally decided to present his birth certificate. Corsi, later that night, on Coast to Coast with George Noory, said he felt the newly released certificate was a forgery (though later arguments from Birthers centered around Hawaii supposedly having a looser policy on issuing birth certificates and one that would enable somebody foreign-born to get a Hawaiian birth certificate)

My conclusion?

My point?

This attention toward Jerome Corsi will really bring the False News debate into high gear. And he is articulate (and actually a pretty nice guy), and he really does seem sincere though many feel he can't be seen as 100% honest (for his endless advocacy of multiple conspiracy theories).

Perhaps the CIA should get attention when False News is a hot topic?

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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AdminPhat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
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Message 2 of 12 (845785)
12-20-2018 10:59 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Percy
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Posts: 18136
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 3 of 12 (845798)
12-21-2018 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


Did you mean Fake News, Trump's mantra?

--Percy


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 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 12-20-2018 10:14 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

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Phat
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Posts: 11916
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 4 of 12 (845819)
12-21-2018 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
12-21-2018 7:44 AM


Fake Fate Faith
Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


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Stile
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Posts: 3352
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 5 of 12 (845822)
12-21-2018 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
12-20-2018 10:14 PM


LamarkNewAge writes:

What is behind the "False News" paranoia? Is it paranoia? Does "False News" exist?

I think False/Fake News exists.
I think it's existed long before the last 5 years or so.

I think it's term has sort of been abused lately, though.
It seems to mean "news I don't want to hear about" more than purposefully-inaccurate news, though.

News has it's own built-in method for detecting falsities.
Sort of like science, but not quite as rigorous.

When news is inaccurate - people know about it. They complain and the news agency corrects it.
If too many complain about the same company, or if a company slacks off on making accuracy corrections - people simply go somewhere else for their news.
The dollar talks, and forces news companies to remain accurate.

Do some things slip through the cracks? Absolutely. Some by accident, some on purpose.
Is this anything more than a blip on the radar? No.
Is there a wide-scale, multiple news-agency conspiracy to force inaccurate stories onto the public? Absolutely not. There's too much money to be made proving them to be false and taking over their business.

So, what is the current day usage of "Fake News?"

It's a term used by people who want to say-whatever-they-can in order to make whatever-point-they-want at the moment.
It's usage today, has no connection with 'actually inaccurate news' because accurate news stories are called "Fake News" all the time, most notably by Trump.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 6 of 12 (845924)
12-22-2018 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Percy
12-21-2018 7:44 AM


I meant Fake News (not "False" News).
The mantra might not belong to Trump, alone.

I did a google search. (FAKE NEWS RUSSIA were the search words)

The most recent hits in Google NEWS do seem to be Trump-ish leaning outlets.

quote:

Trump Defends Syria Pullout After US Envoy's Protest Resignation
RadioFreeEurope/RadioLiberty-7 minutes ago
Syria has been engulfed in a bloody civil war since 2011, with Russia and Iran backing ... The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event!

Trump slams US envoy to anti-ISIS coalition for his resignation
Axios-18 minutes ago
The Fake News is making such a big deal about this nothing event! ... If anybody ... Russia uses these campaigns to create discord over divisive issues. There's ...

'Russian Bots' in 2017 Alabama Senate Election were Actually ...
TruNews-1 hour ago
Purported evidence used to reinforce this narrative included a group of supposed Russian “bots”—fake social media accounts—that were engaging in “fake ...

Report: Democrats Spent As Much On Fake Russian Bots As The ...
legal Insurrection (blog)-2 hours ago
According to reports, Democrats spent the same amount of money on fake Russian bots intended to spread disinformation and fake news as the Russians spent ..

Democrats Created Fake Russian Twitter Bots to Influence Election
WebProNews-2 hours ago
The New York Times reported that Democrats created fake Russian Twitter bots in a disinformation campaign, also known as fake news, in order to influence ...

Russian campaign to get social media to 'grow a spine and vote Jill ...
Daily Mail-4 hours ago
Cyber experts showed that Russians attempted to siphon away votes from Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Party candidate, by boosting Stein through fake ...

Here's how Trump has achieved Russia's policy goals
ThinkProgress-5 hours ago
There has never been a president who has been tougher (but fair) on China or Russia – Never, just look at the facts. The Fake News tries so hard to paint the ...

Democrats spent same amount of money building fake Russian bots ...
BizPac Review-7 hours ago
Joe Simonson, DCNF. While the debate rages on over how much Russia really influenced the results of the 2016 presidential elections, one detail put the entire ...

The Russian effort to divert votes to Jill Stein was more extensive than ...
ThinkProgress-8 hours ago
The extent of Russia's involvement in the 2016 election is well-documented ... on a network of fake accounts whose online reach is thought to be in the tens of ...

To Help Trump Win, Pro-Jill Stein Campaigns Were Launched By ...
Hill Reporter-12 hours ago
To Help Trump Win, Pro-Jill Stein Campaigns Were Launched By Russia Right ... A Senate report found the account to be fake and led by Russian intelligence.

Israeli-Russian relations strained following US withdrawal from Syria
The Jerusalem Post-12 hours ago
“This could just be a version of 'fake news' because we are talking about the potential withdrawal of only 2,000 American soldiers. The U.S.' main military ...

CNN International
Russian meddling found in midterms
Arkansas Online-12 hours ago
The statement contained little detail, but U.S. officials said the intelligence report found that Russia continued to use social media, fake personas and ...

Senate's outside Russia investigators tied to Democratic project to ...
BizPac Review-13 hours ago
The head of the firm behind a report on ongoing Russian influence campaigns in the United States was part of a Democratic project to create fake Russian bots ...

Russians launched pro-Jill Stein social media blitz to help Trump win ...
NBCNews.com-14 hours ago
According to a report commissioned by the Senate, the account was a fake, part of the Russian campaign to sway the 2016 presidential election in favor of ...


But, if you skip down the VERY first of the first 100 hits, then it is more 50-50 in its pro/anti Trump RATIO.

See this set of links a ways down.

quote:

Trevor Noah: 'How deep does the Russian rabbit hole go?'
The Guardian-Dec 19, 2018
Late-night hosts examine Russian suppression of African American voters and the downfall of Michael Flynn .... As a result, fake is in danger of overriding fact.

How Russia Is Still Running Interference For Trump
Forbes-Dec 19, 2018
The Russian operatives unloaded on Mueller through fake accounts on Facebook, Twitter and beyond, falsely claiming that the former FBI director was corrupt ...

Guardian challenged over 'fake' Assange & Manafort story, as Luke ...
RT-Dec 19, 2018
Some wondered whether Harding, a constant critic of the Russian state, had been placed on “gardening leave” following the publication of his 'exclusive.' ...

MSNBC's Russia 'expert': Moscow terrorizing US with meme-filled ...
RT-Dec 19, 2018
Millions of impressionable American minds are being corrupted by Russian-linked memes, “the cruise missiles of fake news”, according to MSNBC's ...

Russian whistleblower died of natural causes, rules coroner
The Guardian-Dec 19, 2018
A coroner has ruled that a Russian millionaire died of natural causes when he collapsed outside his home in .... As a result, fake is in danger of overriding fact.


It seems that the mainstream media is using the term to describe foreign intelligence operations.

Thus my references to the United States intelligence agency (C.I.A.) as being guilty of starting such a "Fake News" type of paranoia was spot on.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 7 of 12 (845926)
12-22-2018 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
12-21-2018 9:09 AM


Re: Fake Fate Faith
quote:

Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Most consider the CIA to be a right-wing nationalistic organization.

If you said the "CIA killed JFK" then you were promoting a left-wing conspiracy. A left-winger blames the right-wing folks.

Those who said the government covered up a Castro and/or Soviet killing of Kennedy were said to be promoting a right-wing conspiracy theory. The right-wingers prefer this type of theory.

However.

The John Birch society is a right-wing type of a conspiracy promoting organization.

When congressman Larry MacDonald (D-Mississippi) was killed in a South Korean airliner, by the Soviet Union's missile, then right-wing conspiracy theorists said that the congressman/John Birch Society president was killed by the deliberate targeting of the Soviets. MacDonald felt the CIA was packed with left-wingers, which was characteristic of the organization he led.

The (John Foster and Alan) Dulles brothers were somehow guilty of "selling out the United States" to Communists according to the Birch Society.

To everyone else, they are the total right-wingers they always were.

The CIA promotes right-wing propaganda, but they infiltrate ANY outlet of influence. (John Birch Society member's beliefs aside)


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 8 of 12 (845927)
12-22-2018 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
12-21-2018 9:09 AM


Re: Fake Fate Faith
quote:

Perhaps the argument on fake news is graduating. Why is it in the interests of the CIA to encourage it? Is there a political ideology behind Mockingbird? (or was there) Is this a Right v Left thing?

Most consider the CIA to be a right-wing nationalistic organization.

If you said the "CIA killed JFK" then you were promoting a left-wing conspiracy. A left-winger blames the right-wing folks.

Those who said the government covered up a Castro and/or Soviet killing of Kennedy were said to be promoting a right-wing conspiracy theory. The right-wingers prefer this type of theory.

However.

The John Birch society is a right-wing type of a conspiracy promoting organization.

When congressman Larry MacDonald (D-Mississippi) was killed in a South Korean airliner, by the Soviet Union's missile, then right-wing conspiracy theorists said that the congressman/John Birch Society president was killed by the deliberate targeting of the Soviets. MacDonald felt the CIA was packed with left-wingers, which was characteristic of the organization he led.

The (John Foster and Alan) Dulles brothers were somehow guilty of "selling out the United States" to Communists according to the Birch Society.

To everyone else, they are the total right-wingers they always were.

The CIA promotes right-wing propaganda, but they infiltrate ANY outlet of influence. (John Birch Society member's beliefs aside)

Content hidden. Exact duplicate of previous message. - Adminnemooseus

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Content hidden. Exact duplicate of previous message. - Adminnemooseus


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Diomedes
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Posts: 781
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 9 of 12 (845936)
12-23-2018 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Stile
12-21-2018 10:06 AM


I think False/Fake News exists.
I think it's existed long before the last 5 years or so.

I think it's term has sort of been abused lately, though.
It seems to mean "news I don't want to hear about" more than purposefully-inaccurate news, though.

Misleading news is nothing new. As you indicated, it existed far before the modern era. (Ever read Pravda?) I think the reason it gets more traction now is social media. Because individuals have the ability to tailor their news sources to whatever fits their preconceived narrative, it is easier to pigeon hole individuals into only believing certain sources of news and discounting others as 'fake news'. Trump's favorite catch phrase.

From my perspective, what bothers me is not necessarily outright 'fake' news, but the obvious bias various news outfits have when it comes to the types of stories they publish. It's no revelation that the Drudge Report leans heavily right and its equally obvious that the Huffington Post leans heavily left. The bias has also found its way into the 24 hr news channels which in my opinion are all garbage now. Fox News pushes the Republican agenda. MSBNC pushes the Democrat agenda. And CNN is essentially left leaning with a heavy emphasis on what I call 'disaster porn'. Hence their 'Breaking News!' ever five minutes methodology.

What I try to do is focus on news sources that, while not perfect, at least give me the ability to review the information more dispassionately. BBC News from my perspective is pretty decent. It does lean left, but it has a world view including reporters in different geographic regions like Singapore. This gives different perspectives which I like. Bloomberg does that as well with offices in Hong Kong and Australia. And also, the PBS Newshour is still, in my opinion, a pretty well rounded news source.

Nothing of course is perfect.


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Stile
Member
Posts: 3352
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 10 of 12 (846139)
12-30-2018 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Diomedes
12-23-2018 10:39 AM


Diomedes writes:

What I try to do is focus on news sources that, while not perfect, at least give me the ability to review the information more dispassionately. BBC News from my perspective is pretty decent. It does lean left, but it has a world view including reporters in different geographic regions like Singapore. This gives different perspectives which I like. Bloomberg does that as well with offices in Hong Kong and Australia. And also, the PBS Newshour is still, in my opinion, a pretty well rounded news source.

Agreed.

Nothing of course is perfect.

Yes.

Not even the "self-correcting" part I mentioned is fool-proof.
It's true that the news will follow the money.
But the money doesn't always come from "people wanting to know the truth."
A lot of times the money comes from "people wanting to hear things that confirm beliefs they hold." (The "belief" may be religious or political or many various things.)

I'm not sure how to develop a system that counteracts this problem.
Although the pledge of social media streams like Facebook to "remove Fake News" (hopefully doing some sort of fact checking) seems to be a decent start.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1313
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 11 of 12 (846190)
12-30-2018 6:08 PM


Can't find any foreign policy threads (including my own ones)
I suppose I will post here a concern of my own, though it might be off topic (or not).

Trump announced that he would pull out of Syria and (it seems) Afghanistan.

The 2 governments have been telling him to get the heck out.

Democrats (and the media) are throwing a fit.

(I know they are because I got into an unpleasant argument with one, as I read Woodward's book Fear, which showed that Trump was arguing against his generals over their totally contrary policies on Afghanistan. He wanted out and said he opposed the war for "17 years", while they wanted to add troops. It was ironically just a day before the Syrian announcement)

So:

Trump says he wants to take all 2000 troops out of Syria.

(Like the Syrian Arab Republic people want)

Democrats are crying out loud.

But:

He FLAT OUT refused to take the 5,200 troops out of Iraq, like the Iraqi people (and government) want.

(No Democrat is attacking Trump on Iraq)

Democrats still seem to have something of a "white supremacy" mindset, like so many of the the party members always have had (Republicans have historically been way more pro immigration and anti-racism, on the eastern side of the U.S.A. anyway).

Trump is actually going against the wishes of the government/people of Iraq, but seems to be moving into line with the Syrian and Afghanistan people's position.

I object to his Iraqi position but am roughly approving his position on the other 2. But, then again, I am not a white supremacist. So I see things differently it seems. My views aren't being aired in the media stories I have read. Iraq isn't even mentioned in opinion pieces, but Syria and Afghanistan sure are. And the Asian/Middle Eastern people aren't getting any respect in the blather.


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3875
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 12 of 12 (846201)
12-31-2018 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by LamarkNewAge
12-30-2018 6:08 PM


How to find old topics
LamarkNewAge said:

Can't find any foreign policy threads (including my own ones)

The way to search for your older topics:

1) Use the forum's "Search" function found in the bar at the page top.

1) Leave "Search Termes" blank.

2) Select a Forum (in this case, "Coffee House", "All Open Forums" is the default).

3) Select "Thread Titles" ("Messages" is the default).

4) Enter your ID.

5) Hit "Search" button.

Up to a limited number (all in your case), the "Coffee House" topics you started will display in chronological order.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

This message is a reply to:
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