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Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 76 of 220 (845946)
12-23-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Phat
12-23-2018 3:02 AM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
Phat writes:
From what I see, everything he is saying is free.
I, for one, have not made up my mind whether ICANT is a smart crook or an honest fool.
(To recap, in case you've forgotten the story: In 1972, with Watergate looming on the horizon, Richard Nixon was re-elected by a landslide, which led one commentator to say that America preferred a smart crook over an honest fool. Since then, if somebody would rather be seen as an honest fool than a smart crook, I take his word for it.)
ICANT seems to want to be seen as an honest fool but I don't discount the opinion of people who think he's a smart crook. He's a poe, really. There's no way of telling whether he actually believes the nonsense that he posts or whether he's just a troll.
As for selling his primitive superstitions, not everything is sold for cash. Maybe he's just trying to fuel his monumental ego.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 3:02 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Tangle, posted 12-23-2018 2:30 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 2:42 PM ringo has replied
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 2:50 PM ringo has replied
 Message 84 by GDR, posted 12-24-2018 5:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 81 of 220 (845953)
12-23-2018 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
12-23-2018 2:42 PM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
Phat writes:
No wonder you interpret the book different from the apologists.
I don't see why starting from different positions would necessarily result in different conclusions. After all, Faith claims she approached the Bible from the same skeptical position as I do now, yet she reached the same conclusions as the apologists. And in fact, I did originally approach the Bible from a position of belief and I concluded that it was fiction.
Phat writes:
You lump them all together as having an agenda...smart crooks.
Not at all. As I have said, if they prefer to be seen as honest fools, I take their word for it.
Phat writes:
But you seem to throw out the Baby(in the manger) with the bathwater.
You're misusing that idiom. You can't separate the Bible into baby and bathwater.
Phat writes:
Funny, though how you declare that if there were a law regarding mandatory giving, I most certainly would obey it...yet you see that same edict in the book and poke holes in belief.
I can't make any sense of that sentence. I'm the one who has pointed out that message to you in the book and you are the one who rejects it. And the beliefs that I poke holes in are the truly stupid ones, like "dying for our sins".
Phat writes:
Essentially, the pastor only accuses you of not looking for evidence for God thoroughly nor honestly enough.
I couldn't care less what he accuses me of. He has no way of knowing how thoroughly or honestly I have looked.
Phat writes:
So is he honest or smart?
Nope.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 2:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 82 of 220 (845955)
12-23-2018 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
12-23-2018 2:50 PM


Re: While Im Ranting at ringo
Phat writes:
You have the audacity to call the pastor illiterate.
And I stand by that assessment. Feel free to argue the point with substance instead of just outrage.
Phat writes:
You may find me in the library someday as you are typing on that computer. I may or may not identify myself...
I know what you look like. You posted a picture of yourself on EvC once.
Phat writes:
... after observing your character around others in the real world.
Go ahead, ask me for spare change.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 2:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 89 of 220 (846062)
12-27-2018 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by GDR
12-24-2018 5:42 PM


Re: Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave
GDR writes:
I have encountered them in Canada in many situations and have been in church with them, so I have some experience.
I spent almost half of my life in those churches, so I have some experience too.
GDR writes:
I wouldn't call him either a crook or a fool.
I wouldn't call most fundamentalists either crooked or foolish, in general. Many of them have been fooled by a foolish message, as you have.
I call ICANT a crook and/or a fool because he persists in making the same stupid arguments even after he has been corrected many times. That is either genuine stupidity or genuine dishonesty (or both).
GDR writes:
Although fundamentalists, like everyone else, go off the moral rails, I doubt that they are any more prone to that than anyone else.
I would say the same thing about all Christians.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by GDR, posted 12-24-2018 5:42 PM GDR has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 90 of 220 (847408)
01-22-2019 11:23 AM


in the Great Debate thread, Phat writes:
Besides, I am testing a theory which says that the more I talk to you, the angrier some of my secular friends will get.
You flatter yourself.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 101 of 220 (877661)
06-19-2020 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by ICANT
06-19-2020 3:31 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
I asked you and anyone else on this website to either straighten me out on my understanding of what they have said and the places they contradict themselves.
That does not seem to me to be a hard thing to do.
We can explain to each other where you go wrong but nobody can explain it to you because you can't see past your huge ego.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by ICANT, posted 06-19-2020 3:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 06-20-2020 11:21 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 107 of 220 (877697)
06-20-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by ICANT
06-20-2020 11:21 AM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
Since energy can not be created or destroyed it has to have existed eternally in the past.
Where is my belief wrong.
"Eternally" is not a scientific idea. We don't know what happened "before" the Big Bang because our notion of time began at the Big Bang.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by ICANT, posted 06-20-2020 11:21 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by ICANT, posted 06-20-2020 4:39 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 115 of 220 (877736)
06-21-2020 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by ICANT
06-20-2020 4:39 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
"Eternally" is not a scientific idea.
It was to Einstein. He believed the universe was static and had always existed, until it was discovered it was expanding.
It was a "belief" to Einstein, as you say yourself. It was not supported by science.
ICANT writes:
That brings us to the problem of where did the energy come from that produced the heat of trillions of degrees k at T=-44?
Science is all about solving problems. You 've been told some of tge tentative solutions.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by ICANT, posted 06-20-2020 4:39 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 06-21-2020 9:39 AM ringo has replied
 Message 118 by ICANT, posted 06-21-2020 3:06 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 117 of 220 (877740)
06-21-2020 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Phat
06-21-2020 9:39 AM


Re: Tangles Comment
Phat writes:
Must everything be supported by scieence?
ICANT is making scientific claims. They definitely must be supported by science - and he claimed that they were.
Phat writes:
Can God in any way be supported by science?
If he could, wouldn't somebody have done it by now? Yet he's still in the same scientific boat as the Tooth Fairy.
Phat writes:
Its your turn now. Consider that my beliefs may not necessarily be a fantasy.
Consider that God could exist. Now what?
As I keep telling you over and over and over and over and over and over again, I HAVE considered that.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Phat, posted 06-21-2020 9:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 125 of 220 (877789)
06-21-2020 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by ICANT
06-21-2020 3:06 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
But prior to Hubble discovering that the universe was expanding Einstein's belief was the scientific view.
And when that belief was proven wrong, it ceased to be the scientific view. Science is self-correcting.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by ICANT, posted 06-21-2020 3:06 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by ICANT, posted 06-22-2020 12:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 130 of 220 (877849)
06-22-2020 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by ICANT
06-22-2020 12:57 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
If the scientific view that the universe was eternal and static was proven to be wrong by Hubble's discovery, what makes you think the current view is the correct view.
Sure, it could be wrong. Sure, it might change some day. What makes you think it would change BACK to a view that has already been proven wrong?
ICANT writes:
That requires the universe to be eternal in existence as it could not have a beginning to exist....
It has already been pointed out to you that our laws of physics only date back to the Big Bang.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by ICANT, posted 06-22-2020 12:57 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by ICANT, posted 06-22-2020 4:11 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 220 (877852)
06-22-2020 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by ICANT
06-22-2020 4:11 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
What view are you referring too?
The one we're talking about. Don't you read your own posts?
quote:
If the scientific view that the universe was eternal and static was proven to be wrong by Hubble's discovery, what makes you think the current view is the correct view. Message 126
ICANT writes:
Didn't Hawking say the laws of Physics would determine how the universe began to exist?
What has that got to do with it? The laws of physics go back to the Big Bang.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by ICANT, posted 06-22-2020 4:11 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2020 2:44 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 141 of 220 (877954)
06-23-2020 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by ICANT
06-23-2020 2:44 PM


Re: Tangles Comment
ICANT writes:
The current view is not proven to be true as was the one of Einstein. But those two are not the only possibilities.
The current view is the best one according to the evidence that we have now.
ICANT writes:
Please explain to me how a set of laws can control the creation of the universe if they did not exist prior to the event of creation.
Who said it was the current laws that controlled the event?
ICANT writes:
If they were created as a part of the event they would not have been in control of the event.
So they weren't in control of the event. What's the problem with that?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by ICANT, posted 06-23-2020 2:44 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 06-23-2020 5:23 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 150 of 220 (878551)
07-01-2020 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by AZPaul3
06-29-2020 6:17 PM


Re: AZ
AZPaul3 writes:
One of my favorite thoughts is of a group of pre-proto-humans sitting around a fire when one of the young women, feeling safe, warm and fed starts humming. No real tune but kind of a cat purr in happy tones.
Gotta love it when women hum.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by AZPaul3, posted 06-29-2020 6:17 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by AZPaul3, posted 07-01-2020 1:39 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 159 of 220 (878612)
07-02-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by ICANT
07-01-2020 4:31 PM


Re: AZ
ICANT writes:
... one of the largest construction companies in the Cayman Islands....
Is that anything like the fanciest restaurant in Moose Jaw?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ICANT, posted 07-01-2020 4:31 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by ICANT, posted 07-02-2020 12:23 PM ringo has replied

  
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