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Author Topic:   Creation
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1422 of 1482 (845618)
12-17-2018 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1416 by Phat
12-17-2018 10:54 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Phat
Phat writes:
Regardless, belief should not affect scientific results.
But Phat all they have is faith in their belief that the universe just is for no reason. There was no cause it just is.
There is no objective verifiable evidence to support the BBT. You have seen the run around I have been getting for the last 10 years.
Although cavediver and Son Goku both said a new theory is needed.
But these guys can't be bothered with the facts as they don't believe in facts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1416 by Phat, posted 12-17-2018 10:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1423 of 1482 (845619)
12-17-2018 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1420 by AZPaul3
12-17-2018 2:51 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
Easy.
If it is so easy why didn't you present your evidence.
Assertions don't count as objective, verifiable, evidence.
Did you not present any as you don't have any?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1420 by AZPaul3, posted 12-17-2018 2:51 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 12-17-2018 11:13 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1425 of 1482 (845628)
12-18-2018 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1424 by AZPaul3
12-17-2018 11:13 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
The evidence is there. You just cannot see it. You don't want to see it.
The evidence is where?
I don't read it in any of your posts.
You never present evidence to support your view or to refute anything I say.
Assertions are not evidence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1424 by AZPaul3, posted 12-17-2018 11:13 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1426 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2018 7:34 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1427 of 1482 (845647)
12-18-2018 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1426 by AZPaul3
12-18-2018 7:34 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
I won't play this silly game with you, ICANT.
You have posted 21 posts to this thread.
Message 713 Raisins
Message 733 Raisins
Message 741 Raisins
Message 744 First second of universe.
Message 747 Size of pinpoint.
Message 750 Raisins
Message 751 Reply NoNukes on my motives.
Message 756 Age of universe.
Message 757 Statement "we don't know yet".
Message 759 Balloon analogy.
Message 763 Assertion about existence of God.
Message 764 "Physics is a human estimate".
Message 773 "deliberate ignorance is dishonest"
Message 780 Reply to GDR Like and dislike of infinities.
Message 801 Reply to GDR "Something very wrong with GR. evidence a clip. Concerning singularities that is supposed to exist in the universe. Message 1388 Assertion universe much smaller than an atom.
Message 1412 There is no absolute truth.
Message 1420 Run around about objective, verifiable, evidence.
Message 1421 Reply to Phat No problem with people being wrong.
Message 1424 Assertion evidence is there.
Message 1426 Silly game
The only evidence presented by you other than you personal beliefs and assertions was the clip in Message 801. That clip discusses a black hole being a singularity. If the inference is that the singularity that existed at T=0, place the math breaks down and reveals no data is a black hole. Where did it come from? Where did it exist? If it began to exist, why?
So where is any evidence that I am supposed to be able to look at?
Since I can not find any.
God Bless,
Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed message number with proper clip

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1426 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2018 7:34 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1428 by Phat, posted 12-18-2018 12:06 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1430 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2018 1:10 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1431 of 1482 (845724)
12-19-2018 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1428 by Phat
12-18-2018 12:06 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Phat
Phat writes:
I don't think either side will ever settle this one.
But it will be settled.
If God is the answer when a person dies they will meet Him face to face.
If God does not exist it won't make any difference.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1428 by Phat, posted 12-18-2018 12:06 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1436 by Stile, posted 12-20-2018 11:37 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1432 of 1482 (845725)
12-19-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1430 by AZPaul3
12-18-2018 1:10 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
All pending further observations, of course.
How do you observe something that is supposed to have happened 13.8 billion years in the past?
We do have a partial description of things that happened in the beginning written down in a book by a man that spent 80 days and nights in a mountain with God.
Many of those things that were written down 3800 years ago has been verified by modern science.
Yet you and others tell me that is not evidence. Even though it made predictions before any one knew the earth was not flat, that has been proven to be true.
When science has zero evidence of any kind.
Paul can you fathom what non existence infers?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1430 by AZPaul3, posted 12-18-2018 1:10 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1433 by AZPaul3, posted 12-19-2018 1:27 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1434 of 1482 (845754)
12-20-2018 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1433 by AZPaul3
12-19-2018 1:27 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
From there we have super accurate math equations
You know those equations are super accurate because....
Einstein proved you can make figures say anything you want them to say.
AZPaul writes:
The fact that some of the stories contain some things we know, and have always known,
How long have we known that the life of the flesh is in the blood?
How long have we known that the universe was getting bigger?
AZPaul writes:
The facts
What facts?
AZPaul writes:
Reality is independent of our thoughts.
Reality what is reality?
Didn't Einstein say "reality was an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."?
When reality becomes a truth then you have a fact.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1433 by AZPaul3, posted 12-19-2018 1:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1435 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2018 1:47 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1437 of 1482 (845883)
12-21-2018 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1435 by AZPaul3
12-20-2018 1:47 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
These people aren't stupid,
I believe they are highly educated and have great book learning. I just do not believe they have common sense.
AZPaul writes:
These tests have been in the news for many decades, some even with wide popular appeal.
Just what tests are you talking about be specific.
AZPaul writes:
If you can't name at least 2 then you haven't been paying attention and need to conduct additional research about the dozens more.
I don't remember 1 that you have mentioned yet.
I do remember that you have asserted over and over they have been done.
AZPaul writes:
The power, Reverend, is once you have a theory that models past observations accurately their predictive powers become more accurate as well.
What theory does that?
AZPaul writes:
Since the first pre-proto-cave man watched his friend bleed out dead after being gored in a hunt. Maybe even before.
He just knew he bleed to death. He did not know why the loss of the blood caused him to stop breathing.
George Washington was bleed to death over 10 hours by taking over 80 oz of blood which was over 1/2 of his blood. While treating him for a closing throat and pneumonia they had all kinds of fancy names to blame his death on. But with over 50% of his blood gone over half the cells of his body was getting no energy, oxygen or removal of waste. Making it impossible for his body to combat his problems.
AZPaul writes:
Enough with the pointed, and rather pointless, questions.
But it is not a pointless question.
The operation of the cardiovascular system was discovered between 1578-1657 it was improved upon in the early 1900's and blood letting was stopped as medical treatment. The blood provides means for the white corpuscle to fight against infections, and the red corpuscle to carry energy and oxygen to the cells of the body and remove the carbon dioxide waste to the lungs.
Yet it was stated or predicted if you prefer that the life of the flesh was in the blood. Without energy and oxygen and removal of the carbon dioxide waste from the body the cells could not survive. So Moses recorded a scientific fact 2800 years before it was discovered. How did he have that knowledge then to be able to write it down? Nobody had that knowledge at that time but somebody that knew had to tell him.
AZPaul writes:
Reality is all facts everywhere through all time whether we have discovered them yet or not.
I can agree that all facts whether known or unknown is what makes up reality.
I know God exists but many here don't.
When the death angel comes and claims them reality will set in and the fact that God does exist will be discovered by them.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1435 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2018 1:47 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1439 by Tangle, posted 12-21-2018 4:44 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 1440 by AZPaul3, posted 12-21-2018 5:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1438 of 1482 (845884)
12-21-2018 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1436 by Stile
12-20-2018 11:37 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Stile
Stile writes:
That's not true, the Lord works in mysterious ways.
His wonders to preform.
Stile writes:
Maybe God exists and judges everyone on how naive they were
If that was the case He would have told us.
Stile writes:
Maybe God doesn't exist, but something else does and they put believers in the Pit of Fools too.
If that was the case that something else would have told us.
Stile writes:
quote:
If God does not exist, I haven't wasted any of this life on a fantasy.
If God does exist, well, that would be cool too.
Why would it be cool to live your life here and even enjoy it to even a hundred years and die, find out there is a God and you would have to spend the rest of eternity in the lake of fire?
Stile writes:
At least it doesn't make belief in God seem like some sort of threat.
God does not make threats. He only deals with facts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1436 by Stile, posted 12-20-2018 11:37 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1473 by Stile, posted 12-30-2018 10:45 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1441 of 1482 (845962)
12-24-2018 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1439 by Tangle
12-21-2018 4:44 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tangle
Keep a civil tongue with your typing and I will respond to you.
Tangle writes:
He did not declare a scientific fact, he was saying something that everyone knew.
All I know is that it was the position of science that if a person was sick that you would bleed them to make them well.
This continued to be the practice until around 1925.
Go to a blood bank and try to donate 80 ounces of blood and see what happens. That was what they took from Washington in 10 hours. You lose that much now and they would be pumping blood into you not taking it out.
Tangle writes:
Had Moses explained *why* the goat dies as you quoted...... then I'd be impressed.
Moses did not say anything about the blood being the life of the flesh.
He did say the life of the flesh was in the blood.
quote:
Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
As you can see from the enlarged text that Moses said the life of the flesh was in the blood. The energy and oxygen is what provides life to the flesh. The blood only provides the method for distribution.
So Moses wrote about what is now a scientific fact at least 2400 years before it was discovered.
That would be classified as a verified prediction.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1439 by Tangle, posted 12-21-2018 4:44 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1442 by DrJones*, posted 12-24-2018 12:46 AM ICANT has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1444 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 3:50 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1443 of 1482 (845964)
12-24-2018 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1440 by AZPaul3
12-21-2018 5:20 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Paul
AZPaul writes:
And with good reason. Common sense has been shown so often to be so very wrong.
Are you sure common sense has been shown to be wrong?
Or are you confusing ignorance and stupidity which has no limits for common sense?
I saw several utube video's but I saw no actual proof of anything.
APaul writes:
Lots of them.
None of them tell me where the universe came from.
None of them tell me why it exists.
None of them can tell me when it began to exist.
None of them can tell me where I came from.
None of them can tell me why I exist.
None of them can tell me where the first life form came from.
They can describe some things that exist and how they function.
AZPaul writes:
One of the things science requires, yes REQUIRES, of a model in order to be considered a "Theory" is its ability to predict accurately.
Is the BBT a theory?
Is string theory a theory?
Is the bounce theory a theory?
Is inflation a theory?
Expansion is not a theory it is a fact. The universe is getting larger.
AZPaul writes:
No. He probably knew, like most everyone else (they may have been ignorant but they were not stupid), that when a human or an animal bled too much it died. Can't help but notice that when you live on this planet.
But he did not write that the blood was the life.
He said the life of the flesh was in the blood.
I don't see how he could have know that as the circulation system of the blood was not discovered until the 1600's.
But he did write it down at least 2400 years before it was discovered.
AZPaul writes:
So goes the mantra. The article of faith. The belief without evidence, without reason, without reality.
What mantra? What article of faith? When it comes to evidence I have more for what I believe than you do for what you believe. But if I explained it to you, you would not be able to understand it so I won't even try. I will just pray for you.
AZPaul writes:
BTW, if we don't talk again before hand, Merry Christmas, ICANT.
And a Blessed Christmas to you and yours.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1440 by AZPaul3, posted 12-21-2018 5:20 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1446 by AZPaul3, posted 12-24-2018 4:10 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1445 of 1482 (845981)
12-24-2018 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1444 by Tangle
12-24-2018 3:50 AM


Re: Creation
Hi Tangle
Tangle writes:
But of course all he's reported to have said was what was already known to everyone at the time.
Name me one person including Moses that knew the life of the flesh was in the blood during his lifetime 2800 years ago.
Give me one reference to the life of the flesh being written about by anybody during the lifetime of Moses other than Moses.
He did not give a dissertation on the blood system. He had no microscope to look into blood and see what was there.
He only wrote something because he was either told too or led too by someone who had that information.
Matteo Realdo Colombo, (born 1516?, Cremona [Italy]died 1559, Rome), clearly outlined circulation of venous blood from the right ventricle, through the pulmonary artery to the lungs, whence it emerges bright red after mixture with a spirit in the air, and returns to the left ventricle through the pulmonary vein. In his only published work of 1559 On Things Anatomical
At this time nothing was known of the function of the red blood cells in the blood system.
So in the 1500's BC Moses wrote about scientific facts that was not known in 1559 AD.
I can not find when the function of the red cells in the blood was discovered. But it was published in 1775 that we needed oxygen to live.
So whether you like it or not Moses wrote about the life of the flesh being in the blood at least 3,000 years before it was known.
How did he obtain that information is not known. I would tend to believe that the designer and creator of the human body and the blood in it transferred that information to Moses by some means. Did Moses understand it? I doubt very seriously he did. But he wrote it down as he was told to write the things he had been shown in a book.
Tangle writes:
People with a brain in their heads would classify it as an outright lie.
Are you saying the statement "the life of the flesh is in the blood" is a lie?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1444 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 3:50 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1447 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 4:42 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 1452 of 1482 (846002)
12-26-2018 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1448 by Phat
12-25-2018 6:07 AM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
Hi Phat
Phat writes:
I would argue that not everyone was intelligent nor was everyone so simple minded just because they couldn't write nor read.
Moses was raised in the house of an Egyptian Pharaoh as the son of the Pharaoh's daughter.
He had all the advantages of Egyptian knowledge that was available.
The Egyptians have been reading and writing since 3400 BC. That was 2600 years before Moses was born. So it is totally asinine for someone to say Moses did not know how to read and write. He lived in Pharaoh's house the first 40 years of his life. My dad told me "son it is better to not say anything and let people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".
Phat writes:
ICANT may argue that some of them had encounters with God and wrote about it or preserved it through oral tradition later written down.
Why would Moses's teachings need to be oral and wrote down later.
He would have been familiar with reading and writing and preserving records as he would have been active in the government in Egypt for 20 years or more. The Hebrews knew how to make clay tablets and they would also have known how to make scrolls out of animal hide.
Besides God told Moses and Aaron to write stuff in a book.
quote:
Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.
quote:
Numbers 5:23 And the priest shall write these curses in a book, and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:
quote:
Deuteronomy 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
17:19 And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
quote:
Deuteronomy 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,
31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
So yes Moses could read and write and had 40 years to teach the children of Israel to read and write in their wilderness journey.
If you enlarge my profile picture you will see the writings that Moses would have used when he did his writings. It is called Paleo Hebrew.
Phat writes:
My experience shows that ancient "wisdom" was at times wiser than the educated medical and scientific establishment of today
It still is
Phat writes:
the educated medical and scientific establishment of today...who is driven by ulterior motives, in the case of pharmaceuticals at least.
I like you have diabetes and my HMO wants me not to cut my toe nails for fear of me nicking the meat and causing an infection. So I go to a podiatrist every three months. The insurance company is charged $90 and I have a $30 copay. On my last visit my doctor was not available and had a substitute taking his place. He cut 4 of my toes. I could have done a better job and saved myself $30 and Medicare $90. But I could go to a pedicurist and get the job done for $25 to $35 and get a better job. But between the government, HMO'S and the medical profession and their greed the tax payer has to pay through the nose.
Added by Edit.
For the last 4 months I have been on the keto diet which is a very low carb diet. (I consume less than 20g carbs a day)
I was having eye surgery and had to discontinue all my medicines for 10 days prior to surgery and I had to keep a close watch on my blood sugar. My morning readings were in the 80 to 121 readings with no meds to help keep it down. After my surgery I did not resume my metformin that I had been taking twice a day for the last 4 years. My blood sugar still remains in the 80 to 120 range. The high numbers be when I cheat on my diet and eat something with sugar in it.
God Bless,
Edited by ICANT, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1448 by Phat, posted 12-25-2018 6:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1453 of 1482 (846003)
12-26-2018 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1449 by Tangle
12-25-2018 7:08 AM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
Hi Tangle
Tangle writes:
ICANT would have loved it.
No he wouldn't have.
Just like he don't like assumptions be peddled as fact today. Which is what your science concerning creation is based on.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1449 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2018 7:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1455 by Phat, posted 12-26-2018 1:52 PM ICANT has not replied
 Message 1457 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 3:54 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1454 of 1482 (846004)
12-26-2018 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1447 by Tangle
12-24-2018 4:42 PM


Re: Creation
Hi Tangle
Tangle writes:
Everyone did.
No one knew the life of the flesh was in the blood until the circulatory system was discovered. After that discovery took place it was discovered that there was red blood cells in the blood that carried oxygen, and energy to each cell in the body for them to function.
But they did know that if you took all the blood out of an animal or human they would die. Which a lot different from understanding the circulatory system.
Why do you want to make ancient people ignoramuses in one breath and then the next say they knew what was not known until the 1900 hundreds?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1447 by Tangle, posted 12-24-2018 4:42 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1458 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 4:23 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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