Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Creation
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1450 of 1482 (845996)
12-25-2018 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1449 by Tangle
12-25-2018 7:08 AM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
Until the scientific method came along nothing was tested, everything was hearsay and superstition.
The point is that luck had nothing to do with my accepting the discipline of fasting. Science verified what the ancients intuitively knew. This whole love affair that you have with modern science is no better than what we have with what you call superstition. Eventually, science will prove us right, but it likely will take an event that shakes you out of your smug comfort zone in order for you to see it...and you will still have to believe by faith...there will not be solid facts handed to you. I do have solid facts to back up my acceptance of fasting. It no longer is ancient wisdom. Someday, God will be proven to be more than ancient superstition. The proof, however, will come individually and subjectively.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1449 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2018 7:08 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1451 by Tangle, posted 12-25-2018 11:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1455 of 1482 (846005)
12-26-2018 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1453 by ICANT
12-26-2018 1:03 PM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
ICANT, replying to Tangle writes:
No he wouldn't have.
Just like he don't like assumptions be peddled as fact today. Which is what your science concerning creation is based on.
It seems that the basic issue with Tangle is that he assumes that collective human wisdom knows more now than we did thousands of years ago. He is selective as to which wisdom and selective as to what the wisdom purports to teach. If you give him even a hint that the wisdom was intuitive or came from God, he will run faster than a cat needing a bath.
But that's ok...I have long since given up on convincing Tangle of anything except the fact that I like him as a verbal jousting opponent. I told him I might see him someday and he invited me to go fishing. Evidently, he hates the idea that I would extend the same courtesy to you....he sees you as a relic of superstition that should be placed in a museum.
In summary, Moses had as much wisdom and intuition as was available in his day and time. The scientific method involves a discipline that was not used in Moses time, but your point, if I understand it, is that Tangle is overstepping his own intelligence by declaring ancient wisdom as superstition and religion...though he does have a limited point. I stepped in to attempt to restore a bit of mutual respect...as per Forum Guidelines and as I am getting to know both of you better through online correspondence, I feel part of the conversation.
I magnified your avatar and saw the scrip. Ancients were hardly total slouches regarding intuition. Tangle seems to believe that once modern society disposes of religion and basic superstition, we will magically advance to populate the stars and cure social ills left and right. I am not so optimistic. I believe that humans need a communion and a relationship with God. It was meant to always be this way.
Creation=creativity. Whom better to ask about creativity than a Creator? Which does not mean that I dont consult google nor educated friends.
Tangle does not even respect apologists such as Dr.Craig Parson an Attorney who has a respectable series of videos on the Bible. He is a Lutheran.
Tangle basically argues that there is no such thing as wisdom which expounds on the Bible...that the Bible itself is all we have or ever had regarding the character and identity of God. Respectfully, I disagree with Tangle, but feel as if the argument will never get anywhere. You either believe or you don't.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1453 by ICANT, posted 12-26-2018 1:03 PM ICANT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1460 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 4:53 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1459 of 1482 (846014)
12-26-2018 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1458 by Tangle
12-26-2018 4:23 PM


Re: Creation
ICANT writes:
Why do you want to make ancient people ignoramuses in one breath and then the next say they knew what was not known until the 1900 hundreds?
Whereupon, Tangle replies:
Now here's a perfect example of your total lack of integrity. You *know* that I am saying that they didn't understand the circulatory system and its purpose. You know that because I've said it half a dozen times. Yet you twist it in this simpleton way - who do you think you're fooling?
To be fair, none of us can accuse another member of a *total* lack of integrity, since none of us have ever met.
What is the argument, anyway? Im lost as to what precisely is being argued.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1458 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 4:23 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1462 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 5:13 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1461 of 1482 (846016)
12-26-2018 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1460 by Tangle
12-26-2018 4:53 PM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
OK, lets go with a "preacher" you can relate to.
Here is something to chew on. Michio Kaku
The Universe in a Nutshell (Full Presentation) Dr.Kaku is one of the public voices of Physics, and he carries on a grand tradition of public presentation. But is he right? Relevant? Empathetic towards a needy planet? Is he better able to give humanity hope in our own intelligence? What do you think?
He claims in this video that by the year 2100 we will have the power of the gods.
To be fair, I havent watched it all yet...but will do so after work. Gotta run.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1460 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2018 4:53 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1465 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2018 4:17 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1466 of 1482 (846034)
12-27-2018 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1465 by Tangle
12-27-2018 4:17 AM


Re: Ancient Wisdom & Common Sense
Hi Tangle. It turned out to be an interesting video...I judged it prematurely based on one quote that he said. He describes the basics of the 4 forces of the universe and how they affect our modern lives. 1) Gravity,2)Electromagnetic force,3)Weak Nuclear, and 4)Strong Nuclear. Kaku explains the implications of the discovery and subsequent utilization of each of the 4 laws. A basic science primer for those of us, such as myself, who never took calculus or an advanced science course.
To be honest, I think much the same way that Pastor ICANT thinks when I attempt to consciously tie science in with my faith. Don't belittle or criticize us for doing so...unlike you, we have a firm belief and are attempting to rationalize modern thought and motive with the teachings we know about human nature.
Why does humanity need to hope in our intelligence and what does 'hoping in our intelligence mean?
I am asking a basic question about whether humanity is going to survive and progress based on faith in our own intelligence and comprehension. My preassumption is that deference to Gods intelligence will benefit us more than the rejection of belief and reliance in our own wisdom alone. Call me crazy. Its how I think.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1465 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2018 4:17 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1467 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2018 2:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024