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Author Topic:   A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 190 of 378 (845965)
12-24-2018 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by GDR
12-23-2018 6:22 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
What'd you do, take a class in erudite?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by GDR, posted 12-23-2018 6:22 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by GDR, posted 12-24-2018 2:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 198 of 378 (845988)
12-24-2018 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by GDR
12-24-2018 2:26 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
You're welcome i'm sure.
Merry Christmas back at you.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 248 of 378 (846319)
01-04-2019 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Phat
01-04-2019 2:53 AM


Re: Science Goes To Church
Stop thinking of the resurrection as a necessary objective fact and start looking at it as a metaphorical ideal.
Yes. Once Christianity has done that we will all be speaking closer to reality.
Unfortunately, others in your (where is jar?) Cult of Ignorance do not view the subject in such metaphorical terms and insist on its physical reality.

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 Message 247 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 2:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 01-04-2019 6:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 258 of 378 (846349)
01-04-2019 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Phat
01-04-2019 6:31 AM


Re: Science Goes To Church
Granted I would have problems giving everything up and having 100% trust.
(snip)
I argue that humans are incapable of being Christlike on our own due to original sin and selfish natures. Thus the resurrection made possible a way, but I myself am unable to follow the example.
"made possible a way" for what? A way to gain the reward without having to perform the tasks of serving the poor, comforting the afflicted, turning the other cheek?
Are you suggesting the resurrection is a cosmic cheat code for the penurious and the lazy?

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 262 of 378 (846354)
01-04-2019 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
01-04-2019 11:04 PM


Re: Science Goes To Church
tangle writes:
The problem is that without the supposed resurrection there would be no Christian religion - it would have just been another run of the mill sect that disappeared without a trace.
Phat writes:
So why did it not disappear again?
European power politics.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 01-05-2019 6:00 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 274 of 378 (846385)
01-05-2019 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
01-05-2019 6:00 AM


Re: Science Goes To Church
While the Catholic Church is persistently accused of destroying
classical or Greco-Roman culture, the fact is that the monasteries
should be credited for "the careful preservation of the works of the
classical world and of the Church Fathers, both of which are central
to Western civilization" ...
Well, I wouldn't put this in such illustrious terms.
True, the church did indeed help preserve some of the prior (or classical) culture, and did study some of what we know today as "the sciences,' but it was all in the service of the church and anything that smacked of challenge to doctrine was suppressed, often violently so.
I don't know of anyone who accuses the church of trying to destroy classical culture but I also don't know of anyone (reasonable) who believes the church sought to extend or enhance that knowledge except through the church's lens of superstition. Which is to be expected since it's a religion and is centered/dependant on superstition.
As a matter of fact, demonstrable fact, the church's suppression of the society and intellect around it led to a clear and devastating retrenchment of human knowledge and human intellectual advancement that still haunts us this 1000++ years later. We don't call it the dark ages for nothing.
Second,
On the interpretation of Scripture,
Andrew of St. Victor argued that the interpreter "should realize this: in
expounding Scripture, when the event described admits of no
naturalistic explanation, then and only then should we have recourse
to miracles"
... this is the very crux of religion's problems.
When the event described in scripture admits of no naturalistic explanation, then the scripture is wrong. There is never any justification to corrupt the intellect with appeals to majik.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 01-05-2019 3:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 277 of 378 (846390)
01-05-2019 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Phat
01-05-2019 3:14 PM


Re: Science Goes To Church
There would be no reason to defend anything was that belief not entrenched.
And you are so entitled. Wrong, but so entitled.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 293 of 378 (846425)
01-05-2019 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Phat
01-05-2019 4:14 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
Science has little evidence to work within this case ...
Uhh, no. The evidence in the science of a resurrection is quite abundant, specific and conclusive. Literally trillions of organisms, billions of them human, testify to the paucity of resurrection. None. The workings of this universe, so well studied, tested, and confirmed, testify to the invalidity of the physics of resurrection claims.
You can deny the science and its veto power over such majik but all this does is show the same delusional desperation Faith shows with here flud.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 299 of 378 (846432)
01-05-2019 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 297 by GDR
01-05-2019 6:50 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
I believe that the resurrected Jesus was experienced in a body that bridged our universe and God's universe.
Well, that's new. At lease to me.
Again, this looks and smells a lot like one of Faith's made-up processes when the evidence against her flud gets too deep. Now you can escape the impediment reality puts on the viability of resurrection by claiming Jesus was not resurrected as a human but as a ghost.

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 Message 297 by GDR, posted 01-05-2019 6:50 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by GDR, posted 01-05-2019 8:28 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 302 of 378 (846439)
01-06-2019 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 300 by GDR
01-05-2019 8:28 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
I did not say as a ghost.
Oh.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 377 of 378 (859792)
08-03-2019 5:20 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Phat
08-03-2019 1:20 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil: Modern Day Star Wars Galactic Battle
Is there any difference between this televangelist (videovangelist?) and the hundreds of others out there grubbing and glad handing for money?
I hear nothing new here. No explanation of the "evils where there is no human agent responsible".
I will not contribute to his eye-count by reading his blog. To me it is the same as accessing Joel Osteen or Westboro Baptist. Eye-count is a surrogate for support.
So what is considered "natural" evil (an incongruous term at this point) and what majik (I presume he will invoke majik) does he use to account for it in his god-perfect universe? Some new take on the usual BS we already hear from religionists when justifying "evil"?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8529
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 378 of 378 (859793)
08-03-2019 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 376 by PaulK
08-03-2019 4:55 AM


Re: The Problem Of Evil: Modern Day Star Wars Galactic Battle
Ahh, so it is the usual BS we get from religionists trying to justify evil. Nothing new to see here.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by PaulK, posted 08-03-2019 4:55 AM PaulK has not replied

  
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