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Author Topic:   Violence in the Bible and the Quran
ringo
Member
Posts: 16010
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 61 of 76 (846839)
01-12-2019 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
01-12-2019 1:51 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Phat writes:

There was one slave involved, who was a Christian and with Paul at the time. Paul wrote to his owner, also a Christian whom he knew, to suggest that he set him free. It's there to be a model for whomever. They had both become Christians and Paul was a Christian leader.


But why would it be a "recommendation" or a "suggestion" at all? Why would it not be automatic for a Christian to treat others as he would want to be treated? Why would Paul even have to mention it?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 2:12 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 76 (846841)
01-12-2019 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by ringo
01-12-2019 1:56 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Because slavery was an entrenched practice everywhere in the world, just one of many classes of people in all societies and not considered to be a particular wrong. That understanding had to grow over time. Unbelievers have the silly habit of reading the Bible anachronistically, from within today's social contexts. Paul was being respectful to the slave owner as a reasonable person, and counting on his Christian conscience to see his point.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by ringo, posted 01-12-2019 1:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 01-12-2019 2:37 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16010
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 63 of 76 (846842)
01-12-2019 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Faith
01-12-2019 2:12 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Faith writes:

Because slavery was an entrenched practice everywhere in the world, just one of many classes of people in all societies and not considered to be a particular wrong. That understanding had to grow over time.


No it didn't, no more so than any other doctrine. If the early Christians could accept the concept that Jesus was their Saviour, they could accept the concept of doing unto others as they would have others do unto them.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 2:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:03 PM ringo has responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 402
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 64 of 76 (846844)
01-12-2019 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
01-12-2019 1:52 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Slavery existed universally in those days.

So did murder, adultery, and the eating of shellfish. Didn't stop the authors of the Bible from prohibiting them. This is one of the subjects which most clearly reveal the dishonesty of fundamentalists like Faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 1:52 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:05 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:39 AM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 76 (846845)
01-12-2019 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by ringo
01-12-2019 2:37 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Fine. Write your own Bible, the real one is obviously so far inferior to your wisdom we need yours to replace it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 01-12-2019 2:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by ringo, posted 01-12-2019 3:11 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 68 by Capt Stormfield, posted 01-12-2019 3:30 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 66 of 76 (846847)
01-12-2019 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Capt Stormfield
01-12-2019 3:03 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
See post above. I defer to your obviously superior wisdom. Maybe I'll listen to your idiotic videos later.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Capt Stormfield, posted 01-12-2019 3:03 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16010
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 67 of 76 (846850)
01-12-2019 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:03 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Faith writes:

Fine. Write your own Bible, the real one is obviously so far inferior to your wisdom we need yours to replace it.


You're the one who rejects what the Bible actually says in favour of what the apologists and commentators tell you to believe. I think it's plain from Paul's epistle that slavery was acceptable to the early church just like it was acceptable to American Christians until 1865. It illustrates how Christian morality is based on doctrine rather than empathy.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 402
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 68 of 76 (846853)
01-12-2019 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:03 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
Perhaps it would be more helpful if you actually read yours.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:03 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:34 AM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 76 (846879)
01-13-2019 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Capt Stormfield
01-12-2019 3:30 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
What would really be helpful is if all my opponents stopped saying stupid false irrelevant things and wasting space.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Capt Stormfield, posted 01-12-2019 3:30 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 76 (846880)
01-13-2019 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Capt Stormfield
01-12-2019 3:03 PM


Re: Biblical slavery
I heard a few seconds of the video. No the Bible does not "sanction" slavery, it treats it as a universal social practice that was so entrenched it had to wait until the culture was more advanced to be able to do away with it. Meanwhile the Mosaic Law humanized and liberalized the laws governing it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Capt Stormfield, posted 01-12-2019 3:03 PM Capt Stormfield has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2019 8:54 AM Faith has responded
 Message 76 by Tangle, posted 01-14-2019 1:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3644
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 71 of 76 (846886)
01-13-2019 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:39 AM


Re: Biblical slavery
No the Bible does not "sanction" slavery, it treats it as a No the Bible does not "sanction" slavery, it treats it as a universal social practice that was so entrenched it had to wait until the culture was more advanced to be able to do away with it. that was so entrenched it had to wait until the culture was more advanced to be able to do away with it.

So your god was already adept at relative morality.

Since this culture is now even more advanced and is well on its way toward changing the universal social practices of homophobia are you willing to accept gay marriage in modern society? Any problems with premarital sex? How about eating shellfish?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:39 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 9:19 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30481
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 76 (846890)
01-13-2019 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by AZPaul3
01-13-2019 8:54 AM


Re: Biblical slavery
My God is wise and doesn't push people beyond our abilities.

Since this culture is now even more advanced and is well on its way toward changing the universal social practices of homophobia are you willing to accept gay marriage in modern society? Any problems with premarital sex? How about eating shellfish?

There is no such thing as homophobia in the sense used by Cultural Marxist Political Correctness and is not a sin in any case but homosexual behavior is a sin against God's Law.

You are thinking illogically. We were able to do away with the cultural sin of slavery in the Christian west, though it continues in the rest of the world. If we could also do away with the sin of homosexual behavior then the situations would be roughly parallel (although homosexual sin is a persona sin and slavery a cultural sin). Want to help us do away with homosexual behavior so we can clear the board of that sin too? Premarital sex is also a sin. Want to help us rid the culture of that one?

Shellfish was forbidden to the Israelites as part of the food prohibitions which were a way to distinguish them from the surrounding idolatrous nations. Those food laws were specifically rescinded in the New Testament. But feel free to avoid eating shellfish if it offends your conscience to eat it.

You really should not try to think about these things. You aren't any good at it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2019 8:54 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by AZPaul3, posted 01-13-2019 10:42 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 74 by ringo, posted 01-14-2019 11:12 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3644
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 73 of 76 (846954)
01-13-2019 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
01-13-2019 9:19 AM


Re: Biblical slavery
There is no such thing as homophobia in the sense used by Cultural Marxist Political Correctness and is not a sin in any case ...

Spoken like a true alt-right bigot with no compassion for the reality of the human condition. Blind and severely insensitive. Christian.

You really should not try to think about these things. You aren't any good at it.

Ohh, ho! Now YOU'RE flirting with ME, aren't ya! You naughty little thing.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 9:19 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16010
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 74 of 76 (846969)
01-14-2019 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
01-13-2019 9:19 AM


Re: Biblical slavery
Faith writes:

There is no such thing as homophobia in the sense used by Cultural Marxist Political Correctness and is not a sin in any case but homosexual behavior is a sin against God's Law.


Well, no. Jesus said that God's law boils down to, "Love God and love your neighbour as yourself."
quote:
Luke 10:25-27 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
Homosexual behaviour doesn't violate that law. Denying rights to homosexuals does.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 9:19 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3347
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 75 of 76 (846970)
01-14-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
01-11-2019 2:39 PM


Faith writes:

I explained it all at least three times.

You did. And 3 times I've shown you objective events in reality that show your explanations to be in error. You have not been able to provide anything that makes reality go away yet.

If that isn't enough for you that's your fault.

Enough for me?
I don't need anything more.
My statements are backed up by objective events in reality.

It's your statements that are simple claims you've made that are contradicted by objective events in reality.

That's plenty for me, it means I'm right.

It's quite clear. Your "facts" are not facts.

You can continue to say so as long as you'd like.
As long as you can't provide events from objective reality to back up your claims - then they are as useful as any other made-up idea in your head. A band-aid for dealing with your personal growth while being frustrated with reality each day, but not true in any way.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 01-11-2019 2:39 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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