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Author Topic:   Being offended.
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 355 of 444 (846974)
01-14-2019 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:29 PM


Faith in Message 339 writes:
The true Right has true statistics, yours are manipulated by the Left.
And you know this how? You wouldn't be making up stuff off the top of your head again, would you?
You posted a second reply to my Message 337:
Faith in Message 341 writes:
Since they are misled by various Leftist and Open Borders organizations into making the dangerous trek in the first place,...
The one organization that seems to play a significant role with migrants is Pueblo Sin Fronteras. They provide assistance to displaced people and helped organize the caravans. I couldn't find any evidence that they provide outreach encouraging people to leave their home countries. They seem to provide assistance to people who have already left.
...if we had a secure system that kept them out unless they applied through legal channels, meaning from their own countries and not after they arrive here, they would not make the trek in the first place...
Yes, that seems to be Trump's goal, to make things so miserable for migrants currently trying to enter the country that people contemplating the same journey would get the message and be dissuaded from making the attempt.
...and we would not be put in the position of "turning our backs" on them.
But "turning our backs" on them is precisely the strategy. Trump thinks that only by treating current migrants so horribly, i.e., by very aggressively "turning our backs" on them by using approaches like family separation and making them wait to apply for asylum, that others will be discouraged from making the same attempt because they realize that America has turned its back on them. Just because we manage to become so aggressively horrible that migrants stop showing up on our borders doesn't mean we haven't turned our back on them. Their suffering continues.
But it's time to remind you yet again that most illegal immigrants arrive here by overstaying their visas, not through illegal border crossings.
That's the doing of the Hate America Left, which is the main thing you are not getting from your media propaganda mill.
You're making things up again. Why are you behaving like Trump's lackey and trying to turn political differences into hate?
How many hundreds of thousands and millions of illegals do you think America can afford to have "compassion" toward?
You mean how many immigrants should we allow into the country every year, whether as asylee, refugee, abuse victim, worker, family member, etc? Right now it's 1.18 million for the most recent year for which we have figures, 2016 (see Immigration to the United States). If we allowed in every Central American who wanted to come it would probably amount to no more than a hundred thousand annually, raising the total annual immigration by around 8.5% to 1.28 million. Our current population growth rate is 0.7%, and this additional immigration would raise it to 0.73%. Just for comparison purposes, if we cut off all immigration our population growth rate would shrink to 0.4% annually, meaning our growth rate just from reproduction is barely above zero. Excluding immigration we're dangerously close to having a shrinking population, which is a very bad thing - just look at Japan. We need immigration.
You know what can happen to countries with too small a population? Germany is what happens to them. Germany happened to France in two world wars and devastated the country, simply because Germany had a larger population, 58 million to 42 million in 1939 just before WWII. Larger populations mean more factories for war production, larger armies, more fighter pilots, etc.
Are you thinking at all?
Quite obviously you're the only one among all of us who isn't thinking. You just stick your head into the right-wing echo chamber and then come here and babble on about inanities. I just gave you a bunch of figures above, and my guess is that you'll ignore them and certainly not understand them. Getting up a good head of steam in that engine of hate of yours is what you're looking for.
Do you have any notion at all of what it's been costing us which is never mentioned by the Left since all they care about is getting fraudulent votes from uneducated people?
You're doing a fine job of providing an example of uneducated people on the right. Suppose you tell us what illegal immigrants are costing us. Provide your sources and math, by the way. Oh, horrors, that would require research!
And again, why are you defending ILLEGAL entry no matter how many jobs there are?
Where did I defend illegal entry? Are you thinking about where I defended the right of migrants to apply for asylum, whether they entered the country illegally or not? Did you miss the part about international treaties about asylum and refugees, of which we are signatory? I'm not encouraging migrants to enter the country illegally, but once here they do have certain rights. See statute 212(d)(5)(A).
What I'm encouraging is increasing immigration limits, especially for humanitarian reasons for our neighbors to the south.
Drugs ARE coming in,...
We should keep a count of how many times people have told you that drugs come in primarily through legal points of entry. Current staffing and equipment allows 1 out of 5 vehicles to be checked. We want staffing and equipment to be increased to make checking all vehicles possible. This will of course cause drug smuggling efforts to shift to illegal border crossings, planes, drones, air travelers, etc., so of course we'll have to make additional improvements. Maybe even including more wall, who knows. It will require study and analysis, not just blindly, "Hey, let's put up a wall from sea to shining sea."
...criminals ARE coming in,...
Criminals are least likely to be stymied by a wall.
...people who become depending on our welfare system thanks to the idiot Left ARE coming in and all this is costing us billions, yes billions.
You keep repeating this fallacy. Please explain to us how an illegal immigrant qualifies for welfare. Even legal immigrants can't qualify for welfare, so how are you imagining illegal immigrants do it?
Your "compassion" is nothing but a way of shutting up rational discussion...
It's not possible to have any influence on your rational discussion because you haven't offered any. All you've offered is false information, unsupported declarations, and scaremongering.
...while ignoring the corruption that exploits the cheap labor at the expense of Americans who would take the work if they got paid enough,...
You mean like the corruption of Donald Trump and all the illegal immigrants he employs at his properties? At salaries that don't interest most Americans? And are you making another appeal for raising the minimum wage? I think that would be wonderful.
...and the political motivation that allows noncitizens to vote.
You're not even making sense here. There are no political efforts to give noncitizens the vote.
What about compassion for AMERICANS?
Who here doesn't have compassion for Americans?
The US should work toward making the rest of the western hemisphere as desirable a place to live as the US - that's how we'll really solve the illegal immigration problem.
I agree and I'm sure it's being done to the best of anyone's ability,...
Then why is Trump threatening to take away aid to Central American countries that do not halt the flow of their citizens northward?
...but what can you do with a sovereign government that does not share our values and only wants to stay in power no matter what? Financial aid only goes to the wrong people. The people themselves have to be able to create enterprises that build up their society. If the policies of their government don't make that possible what would you suggest as the solution?
I don't have any answers, but there are people in government who are expert in these types of policy issues. What do they say? Oh, wait, that's right, you don't do any research. Sigh. Okay, let me go research what they're saying...
Here's a good article: Sending aid is key to solving the Central American migrant crisis. It says:
quote:
President Trump has threatened to cut off or substantially reduce United States foreign assistance to Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador because their governments are not able to do the job of stopping people from leaving their country and coming illegally to the United States.
That policy approach misses the mark. Many Central American migrants are fleeing the violence of kidnapping, gangs, and rape that local authorities have been powerless to stop. But targeted investment in police, courts, prosecutors, and widespread engagement of civil society can make a measurable difference in the lives of the poorest. Central America needs more of that United States investment rather than less.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:29 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by dwise1, posted 01-14-2019 11:19 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 356 of 444 (846975)
01-14-2019 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:25 PM


Faith writes:
It should be pretty interesting when Jesus confronts all you know it alls with your misreadings of His teachings. One glance from Him should do it, shrink you down to size.
Yeah, we'll be sorry, just like you were raptured.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 357 of 444 (846976)
01-14-2019 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:29 PM


Faith writes:
No, dear, the principle here is reality.
You're going to give reality a try? That's wonderful!
I'm not required to do more than I'm able, and a nation is not required to trash its citizens for foreigners.
More scaremongering. See the figures in my earlier post. Increasing immigration by 100,000 annually would be a drop in the bucket for a country our size, and increasing our population growth would be good for us economically and for our assistance programs for the elderly, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid (the last also provides assistance for the non-elderly).
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 358 of 444 (846977)
01-14-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
01-12-2019 10:33 PM


Faith writes:
Is there any group outside of groups you're in that you don't hate?
I seriously think that such a question as that should be regarded as hate speech. It's a lie, it's slander, it shows a total inability to understand what I've been saying, and it reduces the conversation to typical PC ad hominem character assassination. Destructive leftist name calling like this should be soundly trounced by anyone with a brain or a sense of justice.
But you didn't answer the question. It's a reasonable question given your campaigns of hate across many threads for nearly a couple decades.
Oh, I see you're an Inactive Member now. Did you take lessons in throwing temper tantrums from Trump, or vice-versa?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 10:33 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-14-2019 6:10 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 367 of 444 (847293)
01-20-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
01-20-2019 9:15 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:
Our birth rate has fallen way low recently...
Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 9:15 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 4:22 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:24 PM Percy has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 372 of 444 (847348)
01-21-2019 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by Faith
01-20-2019 7:24 PM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Faith writes:
Phat writes:
And don't forget Faith...both you and I need our social security. We need workers to pay into that system.
How about LEGAL workers, what's wrong with that?
Faith writes:
Percy writes:
Not to change the topic, but given Trump's wall-based shutdown I just wanted to interject that this is why we need to increase immigration.
Nobody is objecting to LEGAL immigration...
Yes, Faith, legal immigration - that's obviously what is meant. Clearly you're not reading the longer replies to you (is more than one line too long?) or your memory is seriously failing you. Over and over again people, including me, have pointed out to you that they're not in favor of illegal immigration, but that they are strongly against cruel and antagonistic treatment of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Please stop interpreting opposition to cruelty as advocacy for illegal immigration.
When you replied that no one is objecting to legal immigration in reply to my call for increased immigration, does that mean you have no objections to increasing immigration limits, say from its current 1.18 million to around 1.5 million?
...where we get to weed out the criminals and choose good workers,...
Any random group of people will be a bell shaped curve ranging from poor workers to excellent. Just as most companies hiring processes are unable to detect a priori good workers from bad unless some previous employer provides a negative recommendation, the immigration service can do no better.
...and require them to learn English and the basics of American institutions.
I think you're confusing citizenship with immigration. And even citizenship doesn't require a knowledge of English if you're over 50.
The requirements for legal entry into the country used to include having a clear means of support also.
Being able and willing to work is a clear means of support. Interesting that if you were a foreigner you wouldn't qualify under your own rules.
Now they come in needing free stuff from us, stuff that rightfully belongs to American citizens not foreigners.
Now you're just making stuff up again. Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are a significant net contributor to our GDP.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by Faith, posted 01-20-2019 7:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 379 of 444 (847551)
01-23-2019 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by Theodoric
01-23-2019 11:45 AM


Re: Why so much poverty driving people to the US?
Theodoric writes:
You may want to actually study the history of these countries.
Faith studying actual history, instead of making it up? Fat chance of that! But we clearly share responsibility for the economic, social and political problems in these countries, for example:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Theodoric, posted 01-23-2019 11:45 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
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