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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 496 of 5796 (846950)
01-13-2019 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 491 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:18 PM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Goodbye.
Don't hurry back.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 497 of 5796 (846951)
01-13-2019 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
01-13-2019 2:07 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
Faith writes:
Here's Hillary in 2015 saying she wants a "barrier" at the border:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnZKlLfFx0w
First few minutes.
Haven't found Schumer yet but I've heard him say it on the radio dozens of times so it must be out there somewhere.
abe: Still can't find where Schumer specifically mentioned a barrier but here he is sounding a lot like Trump, at 3:09 and 4:58:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlfOPvUABnw
All you have to do is type [utube=tnZKlLfFx0w] and the video becomes embedded in your message. That funny string of letters is at the end of the URL. You can even include the entire URL and the software will figure it out anyway, as in [utube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnZKlLfFx0w].
I've written the same thing a number of times now, and I'll write it again. No one is against border security. We should provide border security by whatever means make the most sense in any given region. There's a debate to be had.
But border security has nothing to do with funding the government. Trump should open the government and only then have a debate about border security. He shouldn't demand funding for a wall before he'll reopen the government. That's not negotiation, that's extortion.
Look, I know that it's my job to produce references but research really IS hard for me and getting harder on the time as my eyes are getting worse and it is a strain to read anything on the internet with a white background. I was unable to get a coupon for the supplements that prevent the problem from getting worse for almost a month, can't afford full price, and over the counter substitutes really don't do the job. My eyes noticeably worsened over that time. I just got a coupon and now have a four month supply, hooray, but the damage has been done. Sorry but that's the way things are and I don't want to risk making the problem worse by spending too much time reading stuff if I don't have to. So, sorry, but calling me a liar makes you the liar.
Is this a special pleading? Surely you're not saying that diminished capacity entitles you to not only say things that aren't true but demand that other people accept them as if they were, so what are you saying?
If you don't know something is true you shouldn't say it. If you know something isn't true and you say it anyway then you are a liar. Some of the things you are saying you obviously know could not possibly be true, such as that there's no violence by people who hold right-wing views. If you're going to insist on repeating obvious falsehoods again and again then people are going to eventually get fed up with it and start calling you a liar. If you don't want to be called a liar then don't say things that are obviously not true.
By the way, about not being able to afford macular degeneration supplements without a coupon I'll repeat that Trump's tax cut has hastened the time when social security benefits will have to be decreased. If you think this year's 2.8% increase doesn't cut it, it's going to get worse before it gets better.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 2:07 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 499 by PaulK, posted 01-14-2019 12:22 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 498 of 5796 (846952)
01-13-2019 9:35 PM


IMHO whatever vague thoughts on Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid might cross Trump’s brain they're exclusively on the subject of what is in it for him. He probably remembers that cutting them would be very bad for his image.
It's his henchmen who would take castration if it allowed them to kill those programs and transfer the money to the 1% (often including them). At least Ryan's gone into Wingnut Welfare.

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 499 of 5796 (846955)
01-14-2019 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 497 by Percy
01-13-2019 9:15 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
See Message 487 for what Hilary Clinton actually said.
Just another example of deception from Fox News.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Percy, posted 01-13-2019 9:15 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 500 of 5796 (846963)
01-14-2019 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 491 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:18 PM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Faith writes:
I've got to get out of this madhouse.
That you have adverse reactions to facts explains a lot.
You never responded to what Hillary Clinton actually said that was posted by PaulK in Message 487, indicating that the short clip of Clinton speaking in your video was misleading.
But it doesn't matter what any particular politician wants now or wanted in the past. What matters are the facts on the ground today, and those facts say that we mostly don't need more wall of the type Trump keeps proposing, and especially not wall that would prevent access to our resources, such as the Rio Grande, or that puts our own communities on the wrong side of the wall, as has already happened in some cases, or any of a number of other undesirable outcomes.
The latest poll results are in and they contradict your claims. Most Americans blame Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown, and most Americans do not want a Trump-style wall. See Americans blame Trump and GOP much more than Democrats for shutdown, Post-ABC poll finds:
quote:
By a wide margin, more Americans blame President Trump and Republicans in Congress than congressional Democrats for the now record-breaking government shutdown, and most reject the president’s assertion that there is an illegal-immigration crisis on the southern border, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Support for building a wall on the border, which is the principal sticking point in the stalemate between the president and Democrats, has increased over the past year. Today, 42 percent say they support a wall, up from 34 percent last January. A slight majority of Americans (54 percent) oppose the idea, down from 63 percent a year ago.
...
Concerning the allocation of blame, 53 percent say Trump and the Republicans are mainly at fault, and 29 percent blame the Democrats in Congress. Thirteen percent say both sides bear equal responsibility for the shutdown. That is identical to the end of the 16-day shutdown in 2013, when 29 percent blamed then-President Barack Obama and 53 percent put the responsibility on congressional Republicans.
Got that? By a 54-42 percent margin, Americans don't want more wall.
And by a 53-29 percent margin, Americans blame Trump and the Republicans for the shutdown.
The wall has nothing to do with funding the government. There is no budget debate at present. Everyone thinks we should spend the money to open the government. The only thing standing in the way of opening the government is Trump's demand for a wall, which has nothing to do with funding the government. It's just Trump's unique style of negotiating, also known as extortion.
McConnell should grow a spine and schedule a vote in the Senate on the bills being passed in the House to open the government. Trump will veto it and then the House and Senate will override the veto by a wide margin, even though a 2/3 majority is required.
Once the government is open there can be a debate about what is really needed for border security.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 491 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:18 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 501 by JonF, posted 01-14-2019 10:35 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 502 by dwise1, posted 01-14-2019 1:51 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(2)
Message 501 of 5796 (846964)
01-14-2019 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 500 by Percy
01-14-2019 10:30 AM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Ah, but you're ignoring the double secret probation polls.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 10:30 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 502 of 5796 (846978)
01-14-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 500 by Percy
01-14-2019 10:30 AM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Faith should note that this is an example of how to report a poll. This Washington Post article names the poll, presents the overall number, then breaks those numbers down by group (eg in this case, Republicans and Democrats), and finally it provides you a link to the poll itself so that you can examine it yourself. I see the same type and level of reporting all the time on news programs both TV and radio (though providing the link on radio is problematic).
In contrast, Faith is echoing what she's getting from the White House and the Fake News Network, which are vague statements of "(unnamed) polls say ... ". Of course, if somebody knows of the Fake News Network doing proper reporting of polls, please let me know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 500 by Percy, posted 01-14-2019 10:30 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 503 of 5796 (846987)
01-14-2019 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 489 by Faith
01-13-2019 6:24 PM


Re: A barrier is not necessarily Trump's wall.
Faith writes:
Trump wants whatever sort of barrier will keep people from crossing the border, he has described it differently at different times.
Such a barrier does not exist. People will find ways past any barrier.
He is currently focusing on the steel slats type of wall or barrier because as I understand it that is what the border patrol have recommended.
They gave military guys a few simple tools and they were able to get through that barrier in no time flat:
https://www.nbcnews.com/...-showed-it-could-be-sawed-n956856
You are all just wasting time and space with your carryings on about different kinds of barriers. Hillary was talking about a barrier. Trump is talking about a barrier. You're all playing silly games with words. Grow up.
Billions of dollars is not a silly game of words.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 489 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 6:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 504 of 5796 (846999)
01-15-2019 7:49 AM


Fox News Says Trump is Getting the Blame
Fox News reports today that Trump doubles down on border wall, as polls show voters turning against his shutdown strategy:
quote:
A Quinnipiac University poll released Monday found that 63 percent of voters agree with the Democratic proposal to reopen parts of the government that do not involve border security, with 30 percent opposed. The same poll found 63 percent also oppose using the shutdown to force wall funding, with just 32 percent supporting.
The poll found that 56 percent of American voters blame Trump and Republicans in Congress for the partial shutdown, compared with 36 percent who say Democrats are responsible.
An earlier Washington Post-ABC News poll also found more Americans blame Trump and the Republicans than the Democrats over the stalemate -- though the same survey showed support for a wall growing to 42 percent, up from 34 percent a year ago.
Summarizing, 63% of voters think the government should be reopened, and that a shutdown shouldn't be used to force wall funding. 56% of voters blame Trump and Congressional Republicans for the shutdown, compared to 36% who blame Democrats. The Quinnipiac poll backs up what an earlier Washington Post-ABC News poll found.
The only good news for wall huggers? Support for a wall has grown to 42%, though I couldn't find how the question was phrased. Does that 42% support a Trump-style concrete wall, or a steel slat wall, or just a barrier. Do they support walls everywhere or just in places where they make sense?
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 505 by Phat, posted 01-15-2019 8:15 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 505 of 5796 (847001)
01-15-2019 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Percy
01-15-2019 7:49 AM


Re: Fox News Says Trump is Getting the Blame
Percy writes:
The only good news for wall huggers? Support for a wall has grown to 42%, though I couldn't find how the question was phrased. Does that 42% support a Trump-style concrete wall, or a steel slat wall, or just a barrier. Do they support walls everywhere or just in places where they make sense?
Im in a globalist mode this morning, as I just started a new topic on Garbage. This silly wall is a symptom of a far larger cultural battle. Globalists vs Nationalists. Isolationism never worked in 1940 and it won't work now. The US needs to deal with the rest of the planet rather than attempting to protect ourselves from them. The wall is symbolic. Do we attempt to put our garbage on the other side of the wall or do we deal with it globally? Because they (the poor impoverished masses) will affect our lives no matter which side of the wall they end up on.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Percy, posted 01-15-2019 7:49 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 506 of 5796 (847011)
01-15-2019 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Percy
01-15-2019 7:49 AM


Re: Fox News Says Trump is Getting the Blame
Support for a wall has grown to 42%, though I couldn't find how the question was phrased.
Yes, you can find that. That's the Washington Post-ABC poll reported in the Washington Post article that you reported on, quoted from, and linked to in Message 500. That article in turn links you to the poll itself with the questions presented for your inspection.

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 507 of 5796 (847019)
01-15-2019 4:49 PM


May and Brexit Suffer a Major Blow
From Fox News (British Prime Minister Theresa May suffers devastating defeat on key Brexit vote):
quote:
British Prime Minister Theresa May suffered a crushing defeat Tuesday as Parliament overwhelmingly rejected her Brexit deal with the European Union -- a defeat that places the future of Brexit in doubt and intensified calls for May’s ouster via a general election.
May’s withdrawal agreement was voted down 432-202, the largest defeat for a prime minister in the history of the House of Commons.
Let me repeat the end of that last sentence: "The largest defeat for a prime minister in the history of the House of Commons."
Brexit was a stupid idea, but just like here in the US where 30%-40% of the American people support a vindictive buffoon/moron, some significant percentage of the people in the UK don't like being dictated to by the EU. They're idiots. Britain stood to lose trillions of pounds over the long haul. For one thing Britain is currently the financial center of the EU, a position which brings it billions of pounds every year, and that would go away. For another trade within the EU brings a benefit worth more billions of pounds. For another the EU is an economic and trading powerhouse on a par with the US and China. Being an EU member allows easy travel within all of Europe. In return they have to follow a bunch of rules regarding things like immigration and annual budgets and so forth.
The politicians who told Britains that leaving the EU would cost little while freeing Britain from the threat of outside influences were liars and thieves. If the costs had been honestly communicated up front Brexit never would have passed. If sanity reigns then Parliament will schedule another Brexit vote, but sanity is in as short supply there as it is here. There's no way to tell what will happen next, and another Brexit vote doesn't even seem like one of the likely alternatives. But let me quote one of the idiot liars, Jacob Rees Mogg, speaking about the consequences of crashing out of the EU with no deal:
quote:
Cutting the costs of imports from outside the E.U., making our economy more competitive, is going to be extremely beneficial. All the gloomsters, the prophets of doom, are the people who prophesied doom before and they’ve been wrong in all their earlier forecasts.
Yeah, right. Stay tuned.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 508 by Tangle, posted 01-15-2019 5:13 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 508 of 5796 (847021)
01-15-2019 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Percy
01-15-2019 4:49 PM


Re: May and Brexit Suffer a Major Blow
There's a lot going on in your post Percy, some of it's a bit off but the thing you're missing is similar to what happened in the US with Trump - a successful appeal to a very large number of not very educated and very pissed off people who felt that they weren't being listened or even given a voice. It was a lashing out against politics generally.
That and a cut back in all social services and a reduction in wages for pretty much every worker in the Uk over the last ten years caused by the 2008 financial collapse made it almost inevitable that the there'd be a knee jerk.
That's not surprising, what is, that a referendum was allowed in the first place. That was unbelievably stupid. The best thing about this vote today is that the chances of a second vote is improved. A bit.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Percy, posted 01-15-2019 4:49 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(5)
Message 509 of 5796 (847022)
01-15-2019 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Tangle
01-15-2019 5:13 PM


Re: May and Brexit Suffer a Major Blow
You forgot the xenophobia. Trump went for Mexicans, the Brexiteers for Eastern Europeans.
Oh, and the lying.
And the use of social media.
And very likely Russian manipulation.
The parallels between the referendum and Trump’s election are quite strong.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by caffeine, posted 01-17-2019 3:52 PM PaulK has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 510 of 5796 (847079)
01-17-2019 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 509 by PaulK
01-15-2019 5:18 PM


Re: May and Brexit Suffer a Major Blow
You forgot the xenophobia. Trump went for Mexicans, the Brexiteers for Eastern Europeans.
Oh, and the lying.
And the use of social media.
And very likely Russian manipulation.
The parallels between the referendum and Trump’s election are quite strong.
I think people overanalyse the referendum result in a lot of ways. One of the best predictors of someone's vote in the referendum was wealth. The less money someone had, the more likely they were to vote Leave.
People whose lives were comfortable tended to vote to keep on as we are. People who were struggling economically voted for change. I think it's pretty much as simple as that.
Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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