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Author Topic:   UnPC guide to Evo and ID
Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 1 of 44 (346675)
09-05-2006 12:45 PM


Anyone read this yet? Its supoosed to be pretty popular?


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:15 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 6 by Clark, posted 09-05-2006 1:37 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 17 by dwise1, posted 09-05-2006 3:57 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8574
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 2 of 44 (346678)
09-05-2006 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 12:45 PM


How about you reading it?
We'd enjoy it if you'd read it and bring the comments (and supposed support for them) from the front cover here.

:) -- fresh meat!

It appears from your cover picture that it is just a collection of PRATTs (points refuted a thousand times). And all of them hashed out here already.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 12:45 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 1:29 PM NosyNed has responded

Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 3 of 44 (346683)
09-05-2006 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by NosyNed
09-05-2006 1:15 PM


Re: How about you reading it?
I don't know about them being PRaTT arguments. After all its Wells that wrote it. He's not exactly a Hovind, if you know what I mean. I think you would agree that he's a bit more reputable than that. But yes, I'm thinking of reading it, but I was trying to get others opinions on it before hand.


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:15 PM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:33 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
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 Message 9 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:53 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8574
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 4 of 44 (346685)
09-05-2006 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 1:29 PM


Not PRATTs?
Take each of the cover points and try to defend them.

We've been asking, just in the last few days for the scientific evidence for ID but no one has posted any. Maybe if you bought the book you could jump into those threads and be just devestating.

Try to get a money back guarentee though. :)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 1:29 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

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jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 5 of 44 (346686)
09-05-2006 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 1:29 PM


Re: How about you reading it?
It was reviewed by Shakespeare in MacBeth, Act 5 Scene 5.

It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 1:29 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Clark
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 44 (346688)
09-05-2006 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 12:45 PM


Haven't read it but they have a work-in-progress critique of it at Panda's Thumb.

Link

I thought it was interesting that Wells portrays himself as a defender of "Traditional Christianity." Weird, coming from a member of a sect that believes the Reverend Sun Myung Moon is the Messiah.

-Critique of Chapter 15

That Panda's Thumb link gives recommendations to other books on theistic evolution which I highly recommend for Christians.

Perspectives on Evolving Creation

Finding Darwin's God


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 12:45 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

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 Message 7 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 1:49 PM Clark has not yet responded

Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 7 of 44 (346689)
09-05-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Clark
09-05-2006 1:37 PM


Thank you Clark
Thanks for the Panda's thumb critique.
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Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 8 of 44 (346690)
09-05-2006 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by NosyNed
09-05-2006 1:33 PM


Re: Not PRATTs?
Take each of the cover points and try to defend them.

We've been asking, just in the last few days for the scientific evidence for ID but no one has posted any. Maybe if you bought the book you could jump into those threads and be just devestating.

Where are these threads taking place? I'd like to offer some insight.


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:33 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8574
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 9 of 44 (346691)
09-05-2006 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 1:29 PM


Might want to save your money...
Read over the Panda's thumb discussion. It makes a case that Wells is a liar; not someone you'd want to support with your money.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 1:29 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 2:23 PM NosyNed has responded

Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 10 of 44 (346700)
09-05-2006 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by NosyNed
09-05-2006 1:53 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
Read over the Panda's thumb discussion. It makes a case that Wells is a liar; not someone you'd want to support with your money.

So quickly you condemn someone over without having reviewed the facts yourself. Say it ain't so Ned... I know you're Canadian but I'm sure you guys have a form of Due Process over there, aye? Heh. In all seriousness I'm sure its written well even if you don't like what's being written.

Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : edit to add


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 1:53 PM NosyNed has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 13 by NosyNed, posted 09-05-2006 2:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 11 of 44 (346702)
09-05-2006 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 2:23 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
You can say that folk like Dr. Dino or Ron Wyatt are simply ignorant, but Jonathan Wells has no such excuse. When he continues to post things that have been shown to be wrong, when he has the training and obvious intellegence that he exhibits, there seems no other possibility than concluding that like Jerry Falwell, Gene Scott, Pat Robertson, Henry Morris and others he is nothing but a liar.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 2:30 PM jar has responded

Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 12 of 44 (346703)
09-05-2006 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
09-05-2006 2:28 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
You can say that folk like Dr. Dino or Ron Wyatt are simply ignorant, but Jonathan Wells has no such excuse. When he continues to post things that have been shown to be wrong, when he has the training and obvious intellegence that he exhibits, there seems no other possibility than concluding that like Jerry Falwell, Gene Scott, Pat Robertson, Henry Morris and others he is nothing but a liar.

That's a pretty bold charge. Do you have anything definitive to present that I might see this lying in action?


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 09-05-2006 2:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by jar, posted 09-05-2006 2:41 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8574
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 13 of 44 (346704)
09-05-2006 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 2:23 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
There are some very, very clear differences discussed in the Panda's thumb commentary. You should be able to check if Wells' is doing what the Panda guys says he is pretty easily.

Really, really easy if you believe the Panda guy about what he himself says he wrote. Then all you need to do is check the Wells book before you buy it.

If Wells misquoted as claimed then Wells is a liar. Period.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 24595
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 14 of 44 (346705)
09-05-2006 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Hyroglyphx
09-05-2006 2:30 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
On which one? They are all liars and conmen. It would be easier to list what they say that is not a lie. That is a short list seen since there would be few if any entries.

One of his Lies (speaking of the specific Liar Wells now and not all of the other liars that ride on the Medicine Wagon of Televangelism) is that there is some war on Christianity by what he calls (a made up name) Dawinists. Nothing could be further from the truth as the simple fact that I and many other Christians accept the conclusions drawn from the evidence that supports the TOE proves.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 2:30 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-05-2006 3:04 PM jar has responded

Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 551 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 15 of 44 (346708)
09-05-2006 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
09-05-2006 2:41 PM


Re: Might want to save your money...
On which one? They are all liars and conmen. It would be easier to list what they say that is not a lie. That is a short list seen since there would be few if any entries.

I'm not a fan of such acolytes as Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. In fact, I think they tend to do much harm to Christ. But comparing Jonathan Wells, who once was imbued by the Druid-master of evolution, to a liar is pretty bold to do. Your example of such lying is equally unfounded.

One of his Lies (speaking of the specific Liar Wells now and not all of the other liars that ride on the Medicine Wagon of Televangelism) is that there is some war on Christianity by what he calls (a made up name) Dawinists. Nothing could be further from the truth as the simple fact that I and many other Christians accept the conclusions drawn from the evidence that supports the TOE proves.

Please explain how this makes Wells a liar. If Wells believes that Darwinism at heart is a major factor in the Spirit of the Age, then that's what he believes. That doesn't make him a liar. I happen to agree with him. I'm a liar Jar, as is everyone else, but I lie not about my adamence on this point. I highly doubt that Wells somehow wouldn't actually believe what he espouses. I could just as easily say that you're lying about being a conservative christian republican because nothing you say is even remotely akin to those time-honored beliefs. The reason I don't call you a liar is because I believe that you probably earnestly feel as though you are a Christian. Whether you are not is inconsequential. All that is required is for you to have knowledge of whether or not you are making false claims. That's what a liar is, not someone who is simply incorrect on any specific matter.

But hey, all this is getting off topic. The question was, "has anyone read this book. If so, could you ofer a critique." I don't need conjecture. I don't need speculation. I don't need assertions. And if you haven't read the book then your criticism is useless to me.


“"All science, even the divine science, is a sublime detective story. Only it is not set to detect why a man is dead; but the darker secret of why he is alive." —G. K. Chesterton
This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by jar, posted 09-05-2006 2:41 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-05-2006 10:45 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
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