Pennock's 'Tower of Babel'

I just finished rereading 'Tower of Babel (The Evidence Against the New Creationism)' from philosopher of science Robert Pennock. I'd like to know if any other members have comments about this work or Pennock's book of essays 'Intelligent Design Creationism and its Critics.''Babel' isn't an introduction to the creation/evolution debate by any means. In fact, its subtitle is a bit misleading because the focus of Pennock's examination is the multitude of philosophical problems with intelligent design creationism, not the scientific details of IDC's critique of Darwinism. There are plenty of resources on the Web that answer specific creationist complaints, and you won't find any factoids in 'Babel' to wield against your online foes.Pennock establishes the foundation of what we expect from science, and how the notion of common descent and species evolution has been firmly established through evidence from many different areas of scientific study. He describes the progress we've made in understanding natural history through the guiding principles of Darwin's theory, and how it continues to gain explanatory strength with new discoveries.He then discusses the creationist critiques of modern scientific methodology, especially IDC's attack on 'naturalism.' He makes it clear where the legitimate boundaries of scientific inquiry stand, and how the IDC folks are trying to confuse these realistic constraints with full-fledged atheism. Pennock's ease in dismissing these groundless criticisms makes it clear how slight the IDC attack against Darwinism truly is. Some may find his descriptions of what we can expect from 'theistic science' facetious. However, in the absence of any such proposals from actual IDC theorists, Pennock's caricatures will have to do.While mocking the IDC model as unscientific and inconsistent, Pennock admits that creationism does not gain its power from its arguments in the scientific forum. He realizes that the appeal of creationism is completely psychological, a defense against the purposeless void with which Darwinism supposedly replaced our formerly wondrous world. He makes it clear that religious faith must be defined as independent of the existence of a naturalistic explanation for biological complexity. The creationists have been allowed to set up false dichotomies that no amount of scientific evidence will rectify.------------------
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I noticed 'Intelligent Design Creationism and its Critics' in the bookstore this weekend and was going to buy it. There was no price on it, but even though thick it was still just a paperback, how much could it cost? Turned out it cost $47.50, so I left it.'Tower of Babel' sounds interesting, and looking it up at Amazon the price is certainly reasonable.--Percy

I've got a copy of Tower of Babel and it's well worth reading.

I too noticed the prohibitive cost of 'IDC and its Critics.' I'm used to taking these books out of the library anyway, and pricing policies like that aren't going to change my habits.'IDC and its Critics' is set up as essays by IDC theorists and rebuttals by scientists and philosophers. I'm almost sure you can locate most of the essays themselves online. I'll save the $47.50 (that's 25 for you limeys) and take my kids to the movies. Okay, one of my kids.------------------
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Percy,I concur with Mr. H. If you buy no other book on ID than "Tower of Babel", you'll have an incredible resource. He is exceptional at taking to task the putative "theistic science" that lies at the heart of modern creationism, using Philip Johnson as a case study (the philosophical "father" of the ID movement). Well worth whatever price you pay. "IDC and it's critics", otoh, I found interesting but both a little dated and tedious going. "Tower" is much better.

_IDC and it's Critics_ is a resource since it contains material from both sides. I wouldn't even think of trying to read it straight through. On the other hand it would be valuable in actually debating ID because it contains material written by members of the ID movement. Fortunately a lot of it is also on the web._Tower of Babel_on the other hand is a pleasure to read. Unless you're an ID supporter :-)

I concur it's a great resource. A lot of internet forum ID proponents' arguments are taken almost verbatim from the writings of the movers and shakers of the movement - many of whom contributed to ID and its Critics. Maybe my problem was in "trying to read it straight through" (hey, it's not my fault, that's the way I read!). As a result it sits gathering dust on my bookshelf whereas Tower is getting a bit dog-eared.

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A lot of internet forum ID proponents' arguments are taken almost verbatim from the writings of the movers and shakers of the movement

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I take exception to the 'almost' part.I find it interesting how the intelligent design creationists who post here depend so heavily on cut-and-pasted pronouncements from their heroes. You see the same taken-for-granted terminology, the same ill-conceived logical deductions, the same analogies stretched beyond all usefulness, and the same delusions of persecution.------------------
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If I were inclined to be snide, I'd merely point out that in this they are following a long, hallowed creationist tradition pioneered by their religious fundamentalist forebears and intellectual next-of-kin.Of course, not being snide, I would never say that...

I own both books. Both were excellent resources, and I found "IDC... critics" especially helpful ,because it allowed the IDCs to speak for themselves. They did a terrible job, of course. Instread of laying out their case, they just basically complained about how nobody is giving them a free ride. The 'arguments' they did make were shallow and easily refuted by others. especially informative was Demski's chapter and the rebuttal to it. Devastating.