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Author | Topic: Gay Rights in Ireland | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
from:
GCN Gay Ireland News & Entertainment
quote: I'm hoping they get this referendum going, because I'll sure as hell be voting - this would be a really important step for Ireland because currently the Constitution only recognises heterosexual marraiges as proper families, to be protected under the law. I'm very proud of the TDs (from three separate parties that normally don't agree on much) who were prepared to speak out in favour of equal rights. I'm really hoping that more will follow suit and we can move towards something resembling gay marraiges here - or at least equal treatment of gay partnerships and other non-standard families. The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Em.
I just realised that you wouldn't understand Irish government names, seeing as they're in Irish. A TD is a Teachtaí Dáil, equivalent to a British MP. The Oireachtas is the Parliament, consisting of Dáil Eireann (House of Representatives) and Seanad Eireann (the Senate). Sinn Féin is a nationalist party, mostly concerned with Northern Ireland - though they're getting more popular in the south as well these days. The Green Party and Labour are similar enough to the British parties of the same name as far as I know.
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Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
Which way do you think a referendum would go? Think maybe that a tyranny of the majority will make it harder to get the amendment through?
Our Civil Union Act got passed in parliament; I'm not sure that I would have trusted the voters to make the same decision. But then, since this is a constitutional amendment, I guess it has to be decided by the people?
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
To be honest, I'm not sure. I'd say it's entirely possible that the amendment would go through, there are enough people who care about it.
I mean, the divorce referendum went through, and I didn't think that had a hope in hell.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The one question I have on issues like this is whether or not human rights should be determined by public opinion. Is a referendum the best way to make decisions on core issues?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
quote: How else are human rights determined? And once they are determined, how does one enact them into legislation? "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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berberry Inactive Member |
Good question, jar, and my answer would be no. I think that issues of civil rights are best decided by the courts. The 9th and 14th amendments pretty much cover all the bases that aren't covered in the rest of the Bill of Rights, I think. The only question is whether the courts recognize that. That's why SCOTUS appointments are so important.
A new law can be changed easily. America's founding fathers tried to make it such that we couldn't tamper with basic civil rights by merely changing laws. This message has been edited by berberry, 01-26-2006 09:44 AM
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Historically, they have been decided by a smaller group of individuals and often against general public opinion. Look, as an example, at the Civil Rights Act history in the US. It began in the 1950s with a few people that felt that black voting rights were being trampled upon.
Here is a link to the Alabama voter registration procedure from the period. There were three parts, the initial application found here which by lawhad to be completed alone and without help. In addition you had to acomplete two sections dealing with literacy (as it relates to both reading, comprehension and knowledge of US politics and Alabama State Law) which can be seen here. If the Voting Rights Act of 1957 had depended on a general referendum, it would never have passed at all. Likewise, the amendments that were enacted in 1964 would never have had a chance of passage. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Tal Member (Idle past 5676 days) Posts: 1140 From: Fort Bragg, NC Joined: |
quote: But isn't the courts' job simply to interpret the law passed by the legislature? "Damn. I could build a nuclear bomb, given the fissionable material, but I can't tame my computer." (1VB)Jerome - French Rocket Scientist
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
as compared to the constitution. remember, the US has a written doccument listing what rights citizens are guaranteed. if the laws interfere with such, then they are invalid. the cases the supreme court hears which enact change are those that stand against established law but are supported by the constitution.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Normally it isn't a question of public opinion, but the thing is whenever there is any kind of change to the Irish constitution, it has to go to a referendum.
Now, I personally dislike the constitution. It's full of quite a lot of unnecessary religious crap, but hey, it's not entirely surprising considering Ireland is a pillar of Catholicism and all. That aside, there's room for improvement in a few areas. The bit in question that would have to be changed in this case is as follows:
quote: See? The bit in bold would have to be changed because by definition it excludes any form of family other than the usual man, woman, kids version - because the State is only recognising and protecting families based on marraige. If they changed "marraige" to "marraige or civil union", and changed the stuff about the woman to "parent who chooses to stay at home", then gay marraiges and single parents are included.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4436 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Oh, almost forgot - they'd have to ditch that bit about "marraige being the basis of the family" or change it to something like "marraige being the basis of many, but not all, families".
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
In a matter of changing the US Constitution, we too have to go through a referendum. However, we do have somewhat more flexibility as the requirement here is for ratification by the States, thus the voting can be done at the State Legislature level as opposed to the individual level.
Steps for amending the US Constitution Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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berberry Inactive Member |
Tal asks:
quote: That depends on the case. In a typical criminal case you're right, the court is merely there to interpret law and render judgement. But when an issue of constitutionality comes up the court must decide whether the law in question violates any provision of the constitution.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
So, are you saying that what is and is not a human right should be decided by legislative fiat by whoever happens to control the legislature at the time?
I think that a particular minority in the US is right now very concerned about the rights of fetuses, and is trying to do that very thing right now. You don't have any problems with this? Or is there some subtleties that I am missing here? Let me ask the questions again, since this is also related to some other recent threads. What are human rights? How are human rights determined? And by what methods should human rights be protected? "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt
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