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Author Topic:   War on Christmas
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 1 of 245 (370167)
12-16-2006 8:44 AM


In the Coffee House thread Humor II the conversation has gone from posting funny things to discussion of the political correctness of saying "Merry Christmas"

Catholic Scientist writes:

it was just some stupid/funny email that was getting passed around. I don't really know what the story behind the war on christmas thingy is but I let you know what I think it is.

I think some leftwing nutjob bitched about getting wished a Merry Christmas from a greeter at Wal*Mart (IIRC, it coulda been another store) because the whiny little bitch wasn't christian and didn't want to hear it. So, Wal*Mart's (or whatever store) respons is to not allow the greeters to wish people Merry Christmas, it has to be Happy Holidays, or something along those lines that isn't specific to any religion.

That's pretty fuckin' retarded in my opinion.

Yes it is, but the operating factor is that this "what you think it is" What is this email? What is the source? Walmart did indeed, suggest to its greeters to use 'holiday' instead of Christmas but nowhere could I find any source to where the corporation made them do so. And it certainly was not in response to some "leftwing nutjob". Every legitimate source I could find claimed it was "Following the lead of the Whitehouse..." It is all mute anyhow because this year they can say Merry Christmas. I have until now had the greatest respect for your posts. Here you rely on anectdotes to insult a significant number of the American people.

I want to discuss this so called "War on Christmas" that comes up every year. I know a big part of it is the removal of manger scenes from public parks and such. But I suspect it is huge issue nationwide created by fundies. I would like to hear of examples and possibly refutations. I don't know where this should be promoted, Faith and belief?


Wanda: To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. I've known sheep who could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs, but you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.
"A Fish Called Wanda"
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4741
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 245 (370192)
12-16-2006 11:37 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 245 (370197)
12-16-2006 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lithodid-Man
12-16-2006 8:44 AM


The only "War on Christmas" is the anti-Semetic one Bill o'Reilly invented to sell his book. Nobody objects to "Merry Christmas". And why would a "leftwing nutjob" be shopping at Wal-mart in the first place?
This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 6202
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 4 of 245 (370203)
12-16-2006 1:51 PM


War on Common Sense
Crashfrog asked:
And why would a "leftwing nutjob" be shopping at Wal-mart in the first place?

Because it's the only place to shop in the small town in which I live.

But I always drop a dollar into the bell ringer's bucket when I pass.

I don't mind being wished a Merry Christmas, and I will wish others a Merry Christmas when I'm pretty sure they won't be offended (otherwise I will wish them Happy Holidays). Hell, I like Christmas. Presents, gaudy decorations, displays of greenery, and peace on Earth and good will to all men and women -- what's not to like?

Bill O'Reilly is the only source I know of for this so-called "War on Christmas". Talk about nutjobs.

And not putting religious symbols in publically financed places is not a "War on Christmas". Trying to live peaceably among a diverse population is not a "war".


Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. -- Otto von Bismarck
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3209
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 5 of 245 (370254)
12-16-2006 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
12-16-2006 1:51 PM


Re: War on Common Sense
While pursuing Randman's link supporting his Showcase claim that Congress was stepping in to protect IDers persecuted by rabid left-leaning Godless scientists (untrue in a typical Rand fashion: the report was written by a staffer to a single Rep, not a Congressional subcommittee--Rand-fib score, par) I found a story about the rabid left-leaning Godless war on Christmas. The examples were bone-chilling:

WorldNetDaily Commentary by Jerry Falwell writes:

On the series "Two and a Half Men," actor Charlie Sheen (who portrays the self-indulgent Charlie Harper) is seen singing his own rendition of the Christmas carol "Joy to the World," which heralds the miraculous coming to earth of Jesus Christ.

In his depraved version of the song, Charlie sings about planning to have sexual relations with a woman because it's their "second date."

...

Here are just a few [other] examples:

In Fayetteville, Ark., McNair Middle School removed a teacher's Nativity scene and Star of David from a larger display that also included secular holiday decorations. After Liberty Counsel sent a legal memorandum showing that the display was constitutional, school officials reversed the ban.

In Ohio, a public school teacher was told not to say "Merry Christmas" in class. Again, Liberty Counsel sent a legal memo to the district superintendent and an administrator has now advised teachers that they may say "Merry Christmas."

In Wisconsin, a public school employee was told by the principal that a musical program scheduled to take place in a church was going to be moved to a different location. Liberty Counsel sent a legal memo about Christmas to the school. After receiving the memo, the principal decided to keep the event at the church.

In Orlando, Fla., seniors in a retirement home received a directive to strip the common areas of any religious symbols or words in Christmas displays. At the management's direction, an employee actually cut the wings off the angel on the Christmas tree. Liberty Counsel is at work in this case.

Fool commentary here.

Well. I'm surprised Jerry gives Fox a pass on the first issue, since they purvey more sexual innuendo and smutty titillation than anyone but Hustler. But more interesting are the other cases. Note the locations: Arkansas, Ohio, Wisconsin, Orlando, involving school teachers, principals, and retirement homes. Also consider the outcomes.

That's it? This is war? Silly songs of hanky panky to the tune of? Red state locales where silly decisions are made and quickly reversed? He couldn't find a single case in rabid left-leaning Godless New York?

If there is a rabid left-leaning Godless war on Christmas, the generals are as bad as Bush's, and Christmas is winning.

P.S. I'll leave you to discover the South Park hysteria for yourself.

Edited by Omnivorous, : Came to fix typo, fell prey to pun.


Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732–1799)

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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 245 (370257)
12-16-2006 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Omnivorous
12-16-2006 7:07 PM


This Just In
Across the nation, parents were shocked by news that their children, doubtless egged on by leftwing nutjobs, were substituting rude lyrics in traditional Christmas carols, the latest salvo in the Progressive War on Christmas. Instead of venerating our Lord Jesus Christ, these pint-size propagandists instead herald such secular figures as Batman and Robin, asserting in verse that the former "smells" and the latter had "laid an egg."

Our children - only the latest casualties as the War on Christmas wreaks its terrible toil.


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platypus
Member (Idle past 2031 days)
Posts: 139
Joined: 11-12-2006


Message 7 of 245 (370263)
12-16-2006 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lithodid-Man
12-16-2006 8:44 AM


Protest
Season's Greetings all,

Interesting, I always thought the more aggressive initiatives were by the right-wing conservative response, which protested the politically correct "Happy Holidays" slogan. I always thought this situation was more of a war for Christmas by right-wing conservatives. And I actually thought the protest to the HH sign was "f-ing retarded." Seriously, who protests an attempt to offend less people? I think the protesters were being seriously offensive. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/walmart.asp

And yes, I think of Merry Christmas as a religiously motivated statement, though being an X-Catholic I do not find it offensive, but expect that I would be offended had I been of another religious background. Having just discussed this issue with some friends, I will offer my two cents. I think if you want to be a politically correct organization, you should use the phrase "Happ Holidays," though if you are a right-wing organization intent on promoting your pseudo-political agenda, then you will use the phrase "Merry Christmas." My friend's extremely politically correct organization uses "Season's Greetings," because no matter who or what you are, it is a season somewhere and you are entering it, and that's a fact of nature (literally).


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kuresu
Member (Idle past 1552 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 8 of 245 (370264)
12-16-2006 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by crashfrog
12-16-2006 7:27 PM


Re: This Just In
wait . . .
you mean the moral majority is upset about "traditional christmas carols" being changed, that have nothing to do with christmas, like jingle bells?

wow. any remnants of sanity they had left has just flown the coop.
jingle bells is a christmas song?


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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 245 (370268)
12-16-2006 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by kuresu
12-16-2006 7:56 PM


Re: This Just In
In further news, some people will believe anything. Back to you, Bob!
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3209
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 10 of 245 (370307)
12-16-2006 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by crashfrog
12-16-2006 8:18 PM


Re: This Just In
Thanks, Crash, for that report: I guess you can fool all of the people part of the time.

This is that time.

Meanwhile, from our reporters in bed with the 1st Leftwing Nutjob Arctic Battalion, we have word that the Reactionary Santa Resistance Front may be cracking.

Word on the Elf Street has it that labor organizers are finding more receptive ears since Santa named Ann Coulter the Ice Queen--humiliating the crowd favorite, Missus Santa (hailed as "a good cookie-and-a-tickle lassie")--at the recent Reindeer Rut Games.

Nutjob Command denies the rumors of increased desertions since RSRF broadcasts warned that Santa was checking his list...thrice.

In other developments, Nutjob Psy-Ops officers say that the recent leaflets dropped on the North Pole (The Paws of Mr. Claus*) pointing out that "Santa has long hair and a beard, he's a Communist!" and "He sneaks in your house at night!" have created considerable confusion, since the elves thought leftwing nutjobs liked Communists.

In a related news item, President Pelosi said that she will not allow her personal sympathies to interfere with the ongoing investigation of the bizarre, coal-and-sticks asphyxiation deaths of the late President and Vice President. She observed that it might be time for "cooler heads to prevail" in the Christmas War now that the shock of those deaths has passed. She said the search for the other members of the Bush Cabinet will continue, although they would "want us to move on."

----------------------------------------

*Thanks to Arlo Guthrie


Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732–1799)

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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 312 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 11 of 245 (370345)
12-17-2006 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Omnivorous
12-16-2006 11:43 PM


Re: This Just In
Thank you Omni for that report. And thank you for reminding me of one of my favorite Arlo songs! For those unfamiliar:

Arlo Guthrie Sings writes:

THE PAUSE OF MR. CLAUSE
Arlo Guthrie

Why do you sit there so strange?
Is it because you are beautiful?
You must think you are deranged
Why do police guys beat on peace guys?

You must think Santa Clause weird
He has long hair and a beard
Giving his presents for free
Why do police guys mess with peace guys?

Let's get Santa Clause 'cause:
Santa Clause has a red suit
He's a communist
And a beard and long hair must be a pacifist
What's in that pipe that he's smoking?

Mister Clause sneaks in your house at night
He must be a dope fiend, to put you up tight
Why do police guys beat on peace guys?

ABE: Does anyone else think it is time for Arlo to update his 'Presidential Rag' for the current administration?

Edited by Lithodid-Man, : To add a comment

Edited by Lithodid-Man, : No reason given.


Wanda: To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. I've known sheep who could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs, but you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.
"A Fish Called Wanda"
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3209
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 12 of 245 (370376)
12-17-2006 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Lithodid-Man
12-17-2006 6:43 AM


BREAKING NEWS! Dawkins Wishes Merry Christmas To All!
Thanks, Litho, for that inhuman interest story.

This morning the New York Times revealed that Richard Dawkins, author of "The God Delusion" and other rabid left-wing nutjob texts against rabid right-wing nutjob religious beliefs, has startled the world: uttering not "Happy Holidays!" nor "Season's Greetings!" but the full-bore "Merry Christmas!"

Reporter Randy Kennedy, in "An Athesist Can Believe In Christmas" in today's NY Times, quotes an e-mail reply from Dawkins:

Richard Dawkins writes:

Presumably your reason for asking me is that ‘The God Delusion’ is an atheistic book, and you still think of Christmas as a religious festival,

But of course it has long since ceased to be a religious festival. I participate for family reasons, with a reluctance that owes more to aesthetics than atheistics. I detest Jingle Bells, White Christmas, Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, and the obscene spending bonanza that nowadays seems to occupy not just December, but November and much of October, too.

So divorced has Christmas become from religion that I find no necessity to bother with euphemisms such as happy holiday season.

In the same way as many of my friends call themselves Jewish atheists, I acknowledge that I come from Christian cultural roots. I am a post-Christian atheist. So, understanding full well that the phrase retains zero religious significance, I unhesitatingly wish everyone a Merry Christmas.

And a Merry Christmas to you, too, Mr. Dawkins.


Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

-Pierre De Beaumarchais (1732–1799)

Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 245 (370410)
12-17-2006 3:10 PM


Another Issue of Extremes
This whole "War on Christmas" deal that everyone seems to be talking about is just another example of an extremely small amount of people having total control over the majority. I am very strongly of the opinion that people are capable of "growing up" and accepting the religious beliefs of other people. In this case, "Merry Christmas" is probably one of the most benign things that you could say. Ridiculous stories of stores selling "Holiday Trees" or "holiday lights", just pisses me off. It is along the same lines as schools not allowing children to read Harry Potter because one "nutjob" parent thinks it inspires witchcraft.

These people are just Turkeys. I personally am a Atheist, but that doesn't mean that I should get insulted by something like "Merry Christmas!". Now, it would be a different story if people were yelling, "YOU WILL BURN IN ETERNAL HELLFIRE." at me. Hahaha but even then, come on, does it really cause "emotional damage"? Do those words make me go home at night and cry? No, they make me laugh, I think the bigger issue here is just people being over sensitive and sue happy. We're not kids anymore; I'd hope that most of us are tough enough to handle a few unkind words.


"We're surrounded... That simplifies our problem..." -Lewis "Chesty" Puller
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Chiroptera
Member (Idle past 857 days)
Posts: 6202
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 14 of 245 (370411)
12-17-2006 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Rand Al'Thor
12-17-2006 3:10 PM


Re: Another Issue of Extremes
quote:
Ridiculous stories of stores selling "Holiday Trees" or "holiday lights", just pisses me off.

Odd. Why would anyone be pissed off because a privately owned establishment recognizes that it does business with a diverse clientele and wishes to be inclusive?


Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied. -- Otto von Bismarck
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 245 (370415)
12-17-2006 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Rand Al'Thor
12-17-2006 3:10 PM


Re: Another Issue of Extremes
This whole "War on Christmas" deal that everyone seems to be talking about is just another example of an extremely small amount of people having total control over the majority.

No, it's really not. It's an example of the Christian persecution complex, which is so acute that they have to invent fictitious examples of persecution in order to justify their obsession with being persecuted.

Nobody's complaining about "Merry Christmas". It hasn't happened. The War on Christmas is made up. Stories of Wal-mart or Crate and Barrel making their employees not mention Christmas are fake. Neither company has done this.

I personally am a Atheist, but that doesn't mean that I should get insulted by something like "Merry Christmas!".

None of the atheists are, that's the thing.

I think the bigger issue here is just people being over sensitive and sue happy.

Nobody's sued anybody about this. The "War on Christmas" doesn't exist.


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