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Author Topic:   Where do the buddhists go?
Dubious Drewski
Member (Idle past 2553 days)
Posts: 73
From: Alberta
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 1 of 69 (283822)
02-04-2006 3:45 AM


I've always wondered this. If the way to heaven is through acceptance of Jesus into your heart, the alternative being damnation, what happens to all non-Christian peoples of the earth?
I was told as a child that those people chose to live in ignorance of God and therefore deserved Hell.
That's just silly, isn't it? It's especially silly when you consider that many other religions have the exact same view of themselves, with all Christians being the ones doomed to damnation.
Obviously, the best possible scenario is that only one religion is truly right and the rest either innacurate or plain wrong. And the odds of even that are low. Consider the endless permutations of most religion's holy texts over time.
So why do people choose one religion over another and defend them to the death, when obviously most of them (if not all of them) are wrong?
When a sweet 11 year old Buddhist dies, does he go to Christian hell for not believing in Christ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 02-04-2006 10:36 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied
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 Message 29 by BMG, posted 03-18-2006 4:36 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied

  
AdminPD
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Message 2 of 69 (283845)
02-04-2006 9:27 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18310
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 69 (283855)
02-04-2006 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dubious Drewski
02-04-2006 3:45 AM


Drewsky writes:
I've always wondered this. If the way to heaven is through acceptance of Jesus into your heart, the alternative being damnation, what happens to all non-Christian peoples of the earth?
I was told as a child that those people chose to live in ignorance of God and therefore deserved Hell.
Phat writes:
What about "seek and ye shall find?" IMHO, people do not find God. He finds them. Anyone who honestly seeks God will find Him and will not need to be indoctorinated by a religion in order to get a backstage pass to Heaven! I personally believe that Jesus, as God incarnate, IS the Way, but I also believe that anyone in the world who seeks with an honest heart will inevitably encounter Christ on this path.
Obviously, the best possible scenario is that only one religion is truly right and the rest either innacurate or plain wrong. And the odds of even that are low. Consider the endless permutations of most religion's holy texts over time.
Phat writes:
Its not that there is one right religion. Its that there is One God who loved the world and sent His Son (Incarnate)...but words cannot define this communion. You will know in your heart when your seeking is on target!
So why do people choose one religion over another and defend them to the death, when obviously most of them (if not all of them) are wrong?
Phat writes:
Indoctorination. As for myself, I found God through His impartation of Spirit...however...this was reinforced by Religious dogma...so I was understandably confused about what people wanted me to do while remaining assured of God in my heart. Im still sorting this out!
When a sweet 11 year old Buddhist dies, does he go to Christian hell for not believing in Christ?
No. Not at all. IMHO, when this child dies, he/she will meet Jesus at that point and would have no reason to reject Him. Its Organized Religion that turns people off to Christ---not Christ Himself!
This message has been edited by Phat, 02-04-2006 08:38 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 3:45 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 69 (283859)
02-04-2006 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dubious Drewski
02-04-2006 3:45 AM


If the way to heaven is through acceptance of Jesus into your heart, the alternative being damnation, what happens to all non-Christian peoples of the earth?
According to the New Testament, the non-christian is more likely to be saved than the Christian.
I was told as a child that those people chose to live in ignorance of God and therefore deserved Hell.
That is a horrible thing to tell anyone, child or grownup.
Obviously, the best possible scenario is that only one religion is truly right and the rest either innacurate or plain wrong.
Religions are but a human construct and totally unrelated to GOD. It's likely that no religion is completely right just as it's likely that no religion is completely wrong.
The Map is not the Territory.
This message has been edited by jar, 02-04-2006 09:50 AM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 3:45 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied

  
Dubious Drewski
Member (Idle past 2553 days)
Posts: 73
From: Alberta
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 5 of 69 (283911)
02-04-2006 1:48 PM


Very good points. But doesn't this then depreciate the value of Christianity? Why do I constantly get Mormons and Jehova's witnesses at my door if the mere fact of being a moral agnostic is enough to get me into this heaven? They try to lead me to believe that their particular flavour of religion is the one true way of being saved.
Phat, the reason I brought up Buddhism is specifically because there is no deity involved with it. There is no acknowledgement of a God or any kind of Jesus. The whole religion is just some very wise words by one man, the Buddha. Therefore this sweet 11 year old I mentioned has never looked for Jesus. Will he still get into Christian heaven?

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminJar, posted 02-04-2006 2:04 PM Dubious Drewski has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 69 (283914)
02-04-2006 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dubious Drewski
02-04-2006 1:48 PM


who are you responding to?
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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 1:48 PM Dubious Drewski has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM AdminJar has not replied

      
    Dubious Drewski
    Member (Idle past 2553 days)
    Posts: 73
    From: Alberta
    Joined: 02-04-2006


    Message 7 of 69 (284052)
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by AdminJar
    02-04-2006 2:04 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Thank you, AdminJar.
    So does no one have a comment on what I've said?
    Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by AdminJar, posted 02-04-2006 2:04 PM AdminJar has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by nwr, posted 02-04-2006 10:09 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied
     Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 02-04-2006 10:18 PM Dubious Drewski has replied
     Message 11 by macaroniandcheese, posted 02-05-2006 12:15 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied
     Message 12 by purpledawn, posted 02-05-2006 9:48 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied
     Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 02-05-2006 11:54 AM Dubious Drewski has replied
     Message 14 by jar, posted 02-05-2006 1:15 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied
     Message 22 by Hal Jordan, posted 02-06-2006 11:27 AM Dubious Drewski has not replied

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 6409
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 5.3


    Message 8 of 69 (284054)
    02-04-2006 10:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    So does no one have a comment on what I've said?
    Perhaps many evcforum members (myself included) know too little about Buddhism to be able to comment.
    Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
    Everybody has to make their own decision on that. I wouldn't want to be responsible for giving you advice.
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
    ROTFL

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by rgb, posted 03-22-2006 4:30 AM nwr has not replied

      
    Coragyps
    Member (Idle past 756 days)
    Posts: 5553
    From: Snyder, Texas, USA
    Joined: 11-12-2002


    Message 9 of 69 (284059)
    02-04-2006 10:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
    It'll probably turn out that there's one congregation - six members - of either snake-handlers in West Virginia or Fundymuslims in Afganistan that have it right, and all 6,499,999,994 of the rest of us will go to whichever of their hells is the True Hell.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 11:42 PM Coragyps has not replied

      
    Dubious Drewski
    Member (Idle past 2553 days)
    Posts: 73
    From: Alberta
    Joined: 02-04-2006


    Message 10 of 69 (284069)
    02-04-2006 11:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
    02-04-2006 10:18 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Hahaha. That would be just too funny.
    (not really)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 02-04-2006 10:18 PM Coragyps has not replied

      
    macaroniandcheese 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 3950 days)
    Posts: 4258
    Joined: 05-24-2004


    Message 11 of 69 (284074)
    02-05-2006 12:15 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
    depends on which einsteinian instance of the universe you're in.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied

      
    purpledawn
    Member (Idle past 3479 days)
    Posts: 4453
    From: Indiana
    Joined: 04-25-2004


    Message 12 of 69 (284113)
    02-05-2006 9:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Research Religions
    quote:
    Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
    If you are so inclined, research religions and/or spiritual beliefs and try to understand their origin and purpose. Understand which cultures developed the concept of Hell and why.
    Then decide for yourself if you need a religion to make you do what is right and if you feel there is a hell to worry about.
    Personally, I don't feel there is a Hell, so I'm not too worried about it.

    There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. -Edith Wharton

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied

      
    mike the wiz
    Member
    Posts: 4755
    From: u.k
    Joined: 05-24-2003


    Message 13 of 69 (284127)
    02-05-2006 11:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
    From my own belief/opinion, there is no problem with this. I would even advise staying in an agnostic or atheistic position, rather than immediately buying into someone's interpretation of scripture, or buying into any religion.
    Everything that Christ done, suggests to me that if you are a good person, then you are what he calls a "sheep". Christ said that those who clothe him, feed him and love him, will go into everlasting life.
    I choose to believe that these passages are more important to the quick references about those who are unbelievers, being damned.
    I think being damned is a much-abused scripture. People forget how angry Christ was at the pharisees. Infact, you'll find Christ forgave a prostitute even though she didn't ask for forgiveness. Everything Christ does, forces me to trust him. And I trust him enough to believe that being a none-believer isn't what gets you to hell, but infact being evil/sinful.
    It seems to me, that a person who is genuinely seeking peace, and genuinely seeks that which is right, should be rewarded. And those who are wicked, and don't have rest unless they cause trouble, should be punished.
    I'm only speaking according to how God spoke in the Old Testament. He also said the righteouss would have peace as a river, but the wicked shall receive the fruit of their doings.
    Now scripture, to me, paints a picture of a just Christ. So I tend to take those few scriptures as saying that infact those who passionately disbelieve Christ, and contradict righteouss peaceful action via sin, are condemned.
    This is just MY interpretation. A fundy would perhaps have a different interpretation. But why on earth should you be obliged to listen to his rather than mine/Jar's/Phat's?
    It's up to you, do you see Christ in fundies? Or do you see Christ in genuinely good Christians? If the latter, then where is the problem? Even Christ said you'll know them by their fruit; and those who preach hell have bad fruit. That is clear to everyone hear, and I have confidence that any atheist reading this, will surely agree.
    So then, who will you listen to? I would suggest not granting even me, a correct interpretation of scripture, but infact I would, being faithful that you sound like a good person, advise you to read for yourself, and not feel obliged to do anything I say, me being a mere fellow-servant. But as I said, I certainly, for your own sake, would advise you to stay agnostic and not be religious. I'd rather you have no opinion and be peaceful, than for you to become religious and self righteouss.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-05-2006 2:00 PM mike the wiz has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 416 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 14 of 69 (284143)
    02-05-2006 1:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Dubious Drewski
    02-04-2006 9:59 PM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Would it be wise to then, based on this, reject the idea of any formal religion and just focus on being a good, moral person?
    Or do I run the risk of simultaneously burning in every single Hell from every single religion on earth?
    According to the Bible, that is exactly the right course. The Bible says that if you just try to do what is right, really, sincerely try to do the little things, you will be saved. Other religions say the same thing.
    Belief is not a prerequisite for salvation.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Dubious Drewski, posted 02-04-2006 9:59 PM Dubious Drewski has not replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Dubious Drewski
    Member (Idle past 2553 days)
    Posts: 73
    From: Alberta
    Joined: 02-04-2006


    Message 15 of 69 (284149)
    02-05-2006 2:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by mike the wiz
    02-05-2006 11:54 AM


    Re: who are you responding to?
    Thank you, Jar and Mike. Your answers reveal some good news.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by mike the wiz, posted 02-05-2006 11:54 AM mike the wiz has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by NosyNed, posted 02-05-2006 2:48 PM Dubious Drewski has replied

      
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