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Author Topic:   Geology and the Great Sphinx
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 25 (373749)
01-02-2007 3:57 PM


What does it say?
The Great Sphinx is an Egyptian monument built at the site of Giza, Egypt (location of the Great Pyramids). In more recent times, a debate has ensued between what are considered "amateur" archaeologists and geologists by the professional community, and the professional community itself. The debate is thus:
These "amateur" geologists have agreed that the sides of the Sphinx and Sphinx enclosure (the pit that the statue sits in) show clear signs of water erosion through heavy rain downfall. The Giza Plateau is made of limestone, which alternate in layers based on hardness (soft layer, hard layer, soft layer, etc.). These geologists claim that had the Sphinx been eroded through by the wind, the soft layers would be missing, but the hard layers would have been left fully intact. However, the hard layers show up-down channels running between the alternating soft layers. It is their belief that the only way such erosion could've been caused is by heavy rains pounding down and trickling through cracks in the hard layers: slowly eating away at them.
The kicker of their theory is that the last time a rainfall sufficient enough to cause such erosion on the plateau would've stopped around the end of the last Ice Age! Some geologists are more conservative, and don't go back that far, but it still suggests an older date (2500 BC being the date accepted by the "pros"). A date of at least a few thousand years earlier, which is earlier than it has been previously thought a civilization even existed in Egypt.
What do the professionals have to say about this? Well, they think these people are all on crack (meth? pot? some sort of drug). They accept that the Sphinx was built by Khafre (Chephren), builder of the second pyramid on the plateau; placing it at around 2500 BC.
Please, check out this Wikipedia Article for pictures and more information.
So, tell me, what do you think happened? Is the Sphinx proof of a much older civilization? Is their an explanation for the erosion patterns found?
J0N
Edited by Jon, : Removed message to Admins.
Edited by Jonicus Maximus, : Fixed incorrect information.
Edited by Jonicus Maximus, : " " "
Edited by Jon, : Updated link for 2010!

"Can we say the chair on the cat, for example? Or the basket in the person? No, we can't..." - Harriet J. Ottenheimer
"Dim bulbs save on energy..." - jar

Replies to this message:
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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 25 (373751)
01-02-2007 4:04 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
This Forum was the best fit, but keep in mind that while Jon is talking about erosion and Geology, he is not specifically talking about any Great Floods!
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 25 (373757)
01-02-2007 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
01-02-2007 3:57 PM


Re: What does it say?
what do you think happened?
An older civilization built all of it and Egyptians just moved in (same with the Mayans).
You should check out the book Fingerprints of the Gods. You can find it here.
The author's website is here.
I read the book. Its not totally convincing but at least the author has some cool stories to tell. One is about bribing guards and climbing to the top of the great pyramid at night to watch the sun rise.
There's a lot to cover in the book, and a lot of his claims are rejected.
About the sphinx though, and I don't remember exactly, but the point that it faces on the horizon lines up with where the constelation leo crossed it in the past. The thing is that leo didn't cross there since thousands of years before the egyptians, around the time when it last was rainy there.
I can tell you more about what I remember from the book if you want me to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 01-02-2007 3:57 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 01-02-2007 4:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 4 of 25 (373760)
01-02-2007 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2007 4:30 PM


Re: What does it say?
I would 't waste your time with Hancock. Some of what he says isn't bad but a lot of it is crank stuff. And the constellation stuff falls into that category. There's a lot of discussion at The Hall of Maat (under "Papers") including a serious article on the Sphinx Giza Befpore the Fourth Dynasty

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 25 (373772)
01-02-2007 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
01-02-2007 4:38 PM


Re: What does it say?
I would 't waste your time with Hancock.
Too late, although I don't consider it a waste. A lot of his claims were pretty far out there but I don't think he is a total crank.
The book was good, IMO. Hancock is a pretty good story teller and he went on some cool adventures. But I don't read many books so maybe my standards are low.
Thanks for the link to The Hall of Maat. I haven't had time yet, but it looks like a really cool site as the whole alternative history thing is interesting to me.

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Taz
Member (Idle past 3291 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 25 (373824)
01-02-2007 9:08 PM


I vaguely remember seeing a program a long time ago about "ancient alien astronauts" visiting the various ancient cultures of Earth and showed them how to build up their civilizations. The host went around the various sites around the world showing us monuments of "gods" where he pointed out the obvious helmets and life support systems portrayed on the statues. I remember thinking it was a cool program.
Anyone have an idea of who the speaker might have been?

AKA G.A.S.B.Y.
George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger

Replies to this message:
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 836 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 7 of 25 (373832)
01-02-2007 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
01-02-2007 9:08 PM


Many Seek Publicity But Few Shall Find
Sounds like Von Danniken. He is to archeology what Mariah Carrey is to acting.

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 25 (373861)
01-02-2007 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2007 4:30 PM


Re: What does it say?
I own a copy of Underworld, and have to agree with Paul that Hancock's ideas are seldomly anything more than bogous.
The trouble with using the constalation of Leo to make an estimate on the age of the Sphinx is that we have no idea if it was Leo that the Egyptians recognized as being a lion. They may have thought some other grouping of stars looked like a lion, or they may not have thought any grouping looked like a lion.
J0N

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3993 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 9 of 25 (373904)
01-03-2007 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
01-02-2007 11:27 PM


Saws and drills
Good topic, Jon. Allied with the age of the Great Pyramid, is the problem of stone-working. Flinders Petrie was an indefatigable collector of piccies of holes, slabs, cuts and sundry workings of stone. Not just for construction of pyramids, columns, temples, but everyday objects. Some work is so intricate that lapidaries would be hard-pressed to match it today. Take diorite vases. A hard material, it was fashioned into elegant long-necked vases, hollowed out inside to form a thin shell. In one collection, archaeologists found not one or two, but around 50,000. How masses were cut and moved is still debated as very little evidence of tools used in the processes has been found. Were copper saws impregnated with gemstones used for cutting? How about large holes drilled in stone? Or the sarcophagus in the King`s Chamber of the Great Pyramid machined from one piece of granite?

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Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 10 of 25 (373998)
01-03-2007 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
01-02-2007 9:08 PM


ancient alien astronauts
That would be the Sumerian Gods.
Enki and co came from the planet Nibiru.
http://www.crystalinks.com/nibiru.html

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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 11 of 25 (374287)
01-03-2007 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
01-02-2007 3:57 PM


Re: What does it say?
2 peter 3:8 puts the flood another 1000 years in the past to around 5400 years which puts Adam approximately 7500 years ago. This puts the Shrinxs was built before the Egyptians arrived thus one can only conclude by the flood marks the sphinxs was built before the flood approximately 6,500 years ago. Because of the Words about the great roof over the altar (the Great Pyramid of Giza) built by Seths kins next to the Sphinxs both built pre-flood by Seths kin.
The prophecy of the Word (our savior) given to Adam approximately 7,500 years ago was that the Word would come out of Egypt 5,500 years but the world would first experience a Flood.
The lost books of Adam and Eve in the the forgotten books of the bible: the prophecy given to Adam in respect to the coming the flood, The Word coming out of Egypt, the wisemen, etc...kjv matthew 2:11. & kjv matthew 2:15
--------------------------------------
THEN Seth, the just, called his son Enos, and Cainan, son of Enos, and Mahalaleel, son of Cainan, and said unto them:--
2 "As my end is near, I wish to build a roof over the altar on which gifts are offered."
3 They hearkened to his commandment and went out, all of them, both old and young, and worked hard at it, and built a beautiful roof over the altar.
4 And Seth's thought in so doing, was that a blessing should come upon his children on the
p. 69
mountain; and that he should present an offering for them before his death.
5 Then when the building of the roof was completed, he commanded them to make offerings. They worked diligently at these, and brought them to Seth their father who took them and offered them upon the altar; and prayed God to accept their offerings, to have mercy on the souls of his children, and to keep them from the hand of Satan.
6 And God accepted his offering, and sent His blessing upon him and upon his children. And then God made a promise to Seth, saying, "At the end of the great five days and a half, concerning which I have made a promise to thee and to thy father, I will send My Word and save thee and thy seed."
----------------------------
2 Yea, the Word that will again save thee when the five days and a half are fulfilled."
3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five days and a half, he did not understand the meaning of them.
4 For Adam was thinking that there would be but five days and a half for him, to the end of the world.
5 And Adam wept, and prayed God to explain it to him.
6 Then God in His mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and similitude, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his seed.
---------------------------------------
O Seth, my son, the moment I am dead take ye my body and wind it up with myrrh, aloes, and cassia, and leave me here in this Cave of Treasures in which are all these tokens which God gave us from the garden.
10 "O my son, hereafter shall a flood come and overwhelm all creatures, and leave out only eight souls.
11 "But, O my son, let those whom it will leave out from among your children at that time, take my body with them out of this cave; and when they have taken it with them, let the oldest among them command his children to lay my body in a ship until the flood has been assuaged, and they come out of the ship.
12 Then they shall take my body and lay it in the middle of the earth, shortly after they have been saved from the waters of the flood.
13 "For the place where my body shall be laid, is the middle of the earth; God shall come from thence and shall save all our kindred.
------------------------------
17 He then turned to his son Seth, and to Eve his wife, and said to them, "Preserve this gold, this incense, and this myrrh, that God has given us for a sign; for in days that are coming, a flood will overwhelm the whole creation. But those who shall go into the ark shall take with them the gold, the incense, and the myrrh, together with my body; and will lay the gold, the incense, and the myrrh, with my body in the midst of the earth.
18 "Then, after a long time, the city in which the gold, the incense, and the myrrh are found with my body, shall be plundered. But when it is spoiled, the gold the incense, and the myrrh shall be taken care of with the spoil that is kept; and naught of them shall perish, until the Word of God, made man shall come; when kings shall take them, and shall offer to Him, gold in token of His being King; incense, in token of His being God of heaven and earth; and myrrh, in token of His passion.
19 "Gold also, as a token of His overcoming Satan, and all our foes; incense as a token that He will rise from the dead, and be exalted above things in heaven and things in the earth; and myrrh, in token that He will drink bitter gall; and feel the pains of hell from Satan.
20 "And now, O Seth, my son, behold I have revealed unto thee hidden mysteries, which God had revealed unto me. Keep my commandment, for thyself, and for thy people,"
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe096.htm
The Word coming out of Egypt, the wisemen, etc...kjv matthew 2:11. & kjv matthew 2:15
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.
Edited by Charley, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 01-02-2007 3:57 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 01-07-2007 6:56 AM johnfolton has replied
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 25 (375086)
01-07-2007 6:56 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by johnfolton
01-03-2007 11:54 PM


Re: What does it say?
What does this have to do with the Sphinx? Are you also arguing that the pyramids were built longer ago than previously thought? Evidence? Dnde está?
Clearly ol' Chuck, you've gone mad!
Good greif Charley Brown!
Oh brother!
I could go on, but I won't
J0N

This message is a reply to:
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johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 13 of 25 (375102)
01-07-2007 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Jon
01-07-2007 6:56 AM


Re: What does it say?
What does this have to do with the Sphinx? Are you also arguing that the pyramids were built longer ago than previously thought?
The Egyptians are simply taking credit for something they didn't build, their tribes arrived on the scene around 5,000 years ago some 400 years after the biblical flood to those not ignorant of 2 peter 3:8.
You have your own evidence the sphinx was built before a great flood the water marks. The lost books of Adam and Eve great roof appears only to refer to the Great Pryamid of Giza but that it too was built before the deluge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Jon, posted 01-07-2007 6:56 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Vacate, posted 01-23-2007 8:51 AM johnfolton has replied

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 5909 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 14 of 25 (378869)
01-22-2007 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by johnfolton
01-03-2007 11:54 PM


Re: What does it say?
Charley writes:
thus one can only conclude by the flood marks the sphinxs was built before the flood approximately 6,500 years ago.
What flood marks?
The articles cited by the wikipedia link that the OP referred to (this one by Schoch), infers precipitation based erosion, based on vertical erosion patterns. They are not flood marks, but rain marks (as they would require not a still body of water, but water running down the side of the rock).
Now, you could say that this indicates 40 days and nights of rain, but I would assume that a long period (centuries) of periodic heavy rain would be needed to form such structures by precipitation.
---------------------------------
Also, I found this interesting summaries of views on the Sphinx, including that of Schoch, Reader (who PaulK already linked to) and others. View it here: Page not found - WORLD MYSTERIES

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Vacate
Member (Idle past 4600 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 15 of 25 (379174)
01-23-2007 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by johnfolton
01-07-2007 11:05 AM


Re: What does it say?
Charley writes:
The lost books of Adam and Eve great roof appears only to refer to the Great Pryamid of Giza but that it too was built before the deluge.
The link that you posted did not list a "great roof". It listed "a roof", "beautiful roof", and "the roof". As to referring to the great pyramid; you must have a heck of a good imagination to take that from the text you supplied. Do you make the connection because the pyramid is old, and has a roof?

This message is a reply to:
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