Don't get it (Re: Ape to Man - where did the hair go?)

I just don't get evolution. If we supposedly evolved from the ape, where did all of the ape-like hair go. What made us walk upright? What made us grow. Apes today don't seem to be evolving much. It seems to me that there had to be something that lasted a very long period of time in order to cause us to evolve. What could that have been. If you took a fish out of water, and threw it on the ground, would it magically sprout legs and start walking to "adapt." No. It would eventually die. It's too farfetched to say we evolved. No one could have lived long enough. What changed caused us to stop evolving?
Evolution just doesn't seem possible to me. Will someone clear me up on the subject because it's too confusing to me.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it."

Absolutely nowhere. You have the same amount of skin hair follicles as an ape - man or woman.It's just that the hairs are smaller, finer, and lighter. Especially if you're a woman. Well, their envronment isn't changing much, either. Anyway, how long have you been keeping track? Evolution's pretty slow, you know. Individuals don't adapt. Populations do. Is this a distinction you can understand? What the fuck are you talking about? Yeah. You're obviously laboring under some pretty steep misconceptions. Why don't you try asking honest questions in a genuine spirit of inquiry instead of trying to play Stump the Chumps?

Well, you've picked up on the time factor. Time doesn't help, things age, decay and die quickly. Time is our enemy, what use would adaptations be unless you could have them when you need them? My thoughts are similar to yours on this.Millions of years is hardly a quick fix, and if the changes aren't necessarily desperatly needed, then why would they happen at all?Fact is, losing all that ape-like hair is too risky for survival reasons, so I doubt we came from a common ancestor. Also, we would need to swing in the trees with nasty beasties with large teeth on the floor, so again I'm confused. Fact is there are lots of apes and monkeys surviving fine so why would we have needed to evolve in the first place?
Hair for warmth trees for safety and then we go bare arsed running into the field of lions. Lol.

Adaptation happens to populations, not to individuals. Why do I feel like I'm repeating myself? Oh, wait, I am.You're born with all the adaptations you'll ever have. You don't get new ones after you're born. The adaptations come from mutations when you're concieved. They're not driven by environment, they're random. Then the environment selects among individuals to pick the ones with the best adaptations. The rest die, and the winners reproduce. We didn't lose it! You have as many hair follicles as an ape. Man or woman, you have the same number of follicles. How many trees do you think there are on the African steppe, where humanity evolved? How many ape species do you see on the African steppe these days?It was that transition to the new envrionment - one of flat, rolling terrain and tall grasses, not trees - that drove the evolution of the human body plan.It's like you guys are thinking totally backwards on this. How do you guys come up with this stuff?

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It's like you guys are thinking totally backwards on this. How do you guys come up with this stuff?

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I often wonder the same thing.

Thread moved here from the Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution forum.Also added the "(Re: Ape to Man - where did the hair go?)" part to the title, and changed "dont" to "Don't" while I was at it.Adminnemooseus[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-31-2004]

Just because we evolved from a common ancestor with apes doesn't mean that long ago, there was a creature who was born with ape-like qualities, who lived a really long time and as he grew older became more and more like a human. It was a gradual process that took many, many generations.Long ago, there was a population of creatures which were a common ancestor to humans and apes. That population, for some reason, broke up, with one part moving into an environment which made ape-like creatures more likely to survive, while the other group moved into an environment which favored human-like creatures. The ones with the genes which best suited their environment were more likely to live to an age at which they could have children. All the others died before they could reproduce. The ones that reproduced passed on their genes to their children, so eventually, since apes and humans come from different environments, they adapted in different ways.The main reason we seem to have stopped evolving is because one of the biggest factors in evolution is natural selection. Now that there are over 6 billion people in the world, and little to no competition from other animals, not much natural selection goes on, so our species doesn't change very much.

If humans evolved in hot, sunny climates away from the shady protection of trees then 'losing' our hair makes a lot of sense. Humans have an incredible ability to lose body heat through sweating which is only possible due to our lack of hair. This means that we can 'persistance hunt'. Persistance hunting is a method still used by a few african tribesmen today. The principle is very simple: you find an animal and then chase it continuously until it colapses of heat exhaustion. Humans can keep longer than other animals because they have no hair.

Actually, I think we posted at the same time and so we read my post as message three, I hadn't read your previous explanation.I know we are born with the mutations already happened, I'm talking more about when changes are needed immediately in order to survive - well, evolution happens slowly. So then, why was the common ancestor ape-like? What would apes be doing evolving on the African steppe? Wouldn't they be in trees? Or do you mean that they moved from a tree habitat to such a place? Well, I mean - if we inquire and find that there is an answer to the questions then isn't that a good thing?

The fact that sometimes changes are needed immediately for a species to survive is why the fossil record is largely one of extinction. When the environment changes beyond a species' ability to adapt, extinction is the result. Yes, exactly. That migration probably started the evolution of the human body plan. Yeah, it's good, but sometimes you ask questions in such a way that it's not clear how you've arrived at the misunderstanding. Like, if we were talking about Christianity, and I asked "if Christianity is true, then how do you explain the fact that Buddha beat Jesus in a street fight?" you might be very justified in wondering just where the hell I was getting my information about Christianity.

Lol, infact you confuse Jesus, it was actually Allah versus Buddha and Jesus was the referee, they killed eachother and Jesus was the one left. Seriously though Crash, the only time I use provocation is when you guys are ignoring me when I'm lurking and bored and/or to tickle my ribs. I get a kick out of posting something controversial and then running, I call it a splash and dash. I promise to be a good boy today. that basically makes me content that there are explanations for the questions. I would say you have provided answers enough, the change of habitats does fit logically and I won't deny that.Also, I must confess that I thought there was a possible explanation of the visual (so it seems), loss of hair, that being Natural Selection. My thoughts were, that because of the culling process (of information) - we wouldn't be able to get the hair back. That is atleast how I would justify it logically in my own mind anyways. Ho hum.....

Boy oh boy, do you need to see my back. Whenever I start to doubt that humans and gorillas share a common ancestor, I just take my shirt off and look in the mirror. (The mental image you should be getting is "Sasquatch.")You could probably get the hair back. I'm not really familiar with the genetic basis for hair but I doubt it would take more than a few crucial control genes to make your normal mammalian hair thicker and darker. Of course, why would you want to?

You are right Crash - you may well have a hairy back, I personally don't. You'll be hard pressed to find one hair.I read something about Natural Selection that says if you lose the information then you can't get it back. For example, if we have two traits, big headed human and pin headed human, and the pin heads were just too dumb to survive then the big heads would survive only - therefore you could no longer find the pin headed gene.I don't seek hair like an apes, but I do wonder why we are bare butted.

Since there are people born with a mutation that makes them hairy-like-ape, this would seem likely.

Look at the cover of the book Mutants by A M Leroi for a prime example. (If I remembered how to shorten hyperlinks, I'd link to Barnes & Noble here....)[This message has been edited by Coragyps, 03-31-2004]