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Author Topic:   Did Jesus Really Suffer?
Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 4909 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 1 of 4 (534179)
11-05-2009 2:47 PM


Throughout the years, I've heard time and time again that Jesus loves us so much that he died for our sins. He was painfully crucified and tortured on the cross, all for our sake. Any such devotion is admirable and heartwarming, no?
Needless to say, there are more than a few issues with that.
First, the issue of Jesus's pain. Every day, there are millions of people starving in poverty, almost literal ghosts of their former selves (if they were any different to begin with). Every day, millions of people die of horrible painful diseases that wrack their bodies unimaginably even after death, such as the horrific Ebola virus. Ever day, millions of people have their dreams crushed, coming to realize that what they have devoted their very life to can never be in such a cruel world. I could go on, but I won't.
The question is: Compared to all of this horrible suffering that runs rampant throughout the world today or then, was Jesus's single sacrifice even meaningful? Furthermore, even God knew that he would rise from the dead; that was his plan, no? Death with resurrection is not a suitable sacrifice. Imagine all of those dying people, some thinking that they will live on, while others doubt their consciousness's survival; in addition, whether these people go to heaven or not, they will never again exist on Earth. Next to that, Jesus's sacrifice is nothing. The only thing that could come close to the sacrifice morally justified would be Jesus taking all of our place's in Hell for all eternity, suffering everything that we would have. That would be true love, not this giving away of something that you know you'll get back in 36 hours.
Also, the sacrifice of Jesus makes no sense from a logical perspective. Simply put, why go to the lengths of being killed in order to forgive everyone? Why was it necessary for God to, effectively, commit suicide in order to be able to forgive his own people. At the very least, this implies that God is under threat from a more powerful being that controls sin, and the only way to win is to die. In addition, it makes no sense for an innocent- even God- to die for someone else's sins. That would be like a jury summoning the cousin of a convicted murderer to do the time instead, which is obviously unjust. An objection could arise that the cousin could willfully go to prison to protect his cousin; however, this action does not stop the murderer from continuing to commit crimes and is thus ineffectual.
So, my question is this: How can Jesus's sacrifice be regarded as the ultimate price and gift to humanity if there are so many today who suffer much worse and gain nothing from it? In addition, how, from a logical and lawful perspective, does Jesus's substitution make sense?
T&U
Edited by Teapots&unicorns, : No reason given.

I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
I'm a polyatheist - there are many gods I don't believe in
- Dan Foutes
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- Douglas Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 11-05-2009 5:41 PM Teapots&unicorns has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 4 (534200)
11-05-2009 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns
11-05-2009 2:47 PM


Needs Clarification
quote:
So, my question is this: How do you reconcile your belief in Jesus's sacrifice with today's greater suffering; and how does his death for your crimes make any sense?
I understand the questions you're asking concerning Christian dogma, but I don't see that your OP explains the point in the comparison. IOW, why does belief in Jesus's sacrifice need to be reconciled or compared with anyone else's suffering to have meaning to Christians?
I think there needs to be something in the OP that explains/supports what one has to do with the other.
Respond to this post after you edit the OP or if you have questions.
Thanks
AdminPD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 11-05-2009 2:47 PM Teapots&unicorns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Teapots&unicorns, posted 11-05-2009 6:19 PM AdminPD has not replied

Teapots&unicorns
Member (Idle past 4909 days)
Posts: 178
Joined: 06-23-2009


Message 3 of 4 (534204)
11-05-2009 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
11-05-2009 5:41 PM


Re: Needs Clarification
Thanks.
Check my edit. I hope it's ok.
T&U

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 11-05-2009 5:41 PM AdminPD has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 4 (534210)
11-05-2009 8:32 PM


Thread Copied to Faith and Belief Forum
Thread copied to the Did Jesus Really Suffer? thread in the Faith and Belief forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

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