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Author | Topic: Sermon question time? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
killinghurts Member (Idle past 5021 days) Posts: 150 Joined: |
From what I've seen in my limited experience of religious gatherings the format generally consists of a preacher of some form giving his (or, in some more liberal cases - her) impression of a passage in the *insert religious text here*.
I've also sat in many lectures at university and I've noticed that the fundamentals are the same - one guy or gal giving their impression of *insert scientific text here*. There is one very subtle but important difference I've noticed though... during a sermon no one ever puts their hand up and asks a tough question - they just sit there and listening, nodding, agreeing, smiling - why? Does anyone ever ask questions during or straight after a sermon? What's your experience? Over to you
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AdminPD Inactive Administrator |
Thread copied here from the Sermon question time? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee Member (Idle past 4970 days) Posts: 572 From: UK Joined: |
Hi killinghurts
A great question. Only a few weeks ago I was flicking through the god channels (I like to ensure I get a balanced set of opinions) and there was a preacher telling his flock how he saw angels every day. He described seeing a couple fly over his house a few days before. He said they made a noise like a fighter jet! Yet nobody in the congregation jumped up and said: "Holy *$#@! You saw an angel! Which way's your house? Let's take a video camera!" Instead, they all sat there (hundreds of them) thrusting their nodding heads back and forth like demented metronomes.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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In most Churches, if you tried to ask questions during the sermon you would be considered rude and insulting. If you tried it repeatedly, you would find yourself very unwelcome at that Church.
If you tried to ask questions during the Commencement speech at a university, you would probably be escorted out of the room. On the other hand, questions might be welcomed at a theology lecture at a university or seminary. Some events, such as that lecture by a scientist, are educational events with a purpose of conveying information. Other events are ceremonial events. The social traditions on how to behave at ceremonial events are very different from the traditions for educational events. That same Church that does not welcome questions during the sermon - that Church probably has some Bible study classes, and questions would likely be welcome during those study sessions.
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Apothecus Member (Idle past 2438 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: |
Hey KH.
In my (admittedly) fundamentalist church services, the sermon is considered a presentation during which it is common practice to simply listen, absorb and comprehend. That's not to say there isn't an inordinate amount of grunting, incomprehensible muttering and/or other gutteral noise-making going on, usually after the pastor says something one or more people think is profound or important. In fact, they sometimes ripple around the sanctuary in sort of self-sustaining waves, dying out during significant, pregnant pauses.
Does anyone ever ask questions during or straight after a sermon? What's your experience? Since I generally don't agree with much with regard to religion, I enjoy rattling the animals' cages by asking various, frequently probing questions of the pastor. Yes, this time is either directly after the service or actually, anytime not during the sermon proper. These Q&A sessions will tend to get me into trouble with my wife, and usually gravitate toward a back hallway or somewhere other than common areas filled with nosy laity. However, I take the tack that the only stupid question is the one not asked. I do believe my pastor is getting frustrated with me. Have a good one.
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Buzsaw Inactive Member
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You've put it well, NWR. Killinghurts makes a good point that parishoners should hold the pastors and priests accountable for what they teach. I do that quite often, sometime after the sermon. It may be a question or comment at the door if the speaker is at the door or it may be on an appropriate occasion afterwards.
My experience has been that unfortunately, one senses that some pastors or speakers do not appreciate being held accountable for what they say. Others have the right attitude that iron sharpens iron. Generally speaking, I have not been warmly welcomed in the majority of churches I've visited or been involved with, interestingly, for the same reasons I'm not popular here at EvC. Most are convinced in their own minds that since they've been highly educated in the colleges and universities that they have it all down pat and who are you to question? Church or lectures are different however than here, in that here open debate is encouraged. Contrary to what some here think, I've learned a lot from counterparts here over the years and perhaps said some things that at least provoke counterparts to think and learn on matters they hadn't previously thought about. I am especially appreciative to the pastor of the church I have attended for the past decade. He allows his parishoners to sharpen his iron as he sharpens ours. He has actually allowed me to teach him things such as the prophecies which I am well studied on and pertaining to other doctrines such as the Trinity, etc. He has recently acheived his doctorate and I have no degree. We have become dear brothers in Christ as we teach one another. He teaches me a lot on ancient history and such that he is well studied on. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4957 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
my experience is that at JW meetings, the bible is always used to back up any statement made by the speaker
the whole audience will have their bible and will follow along on the speakers biblical references...so the chances of a speaker making statements that have no foundation is virtually nil. I think the fact that a speaker does provide the basis of his comments thru scripture means that no one is left wondering if what he said is true or not.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
After reading NWR, Buz, and Peg's statements, I couldn't help but think something: a weekly sermon is about all the bible "learning" a run-of-the-mill every day christian has. This weekly sermon is what they know about the bible. It is what they know about jesus.
Now you say that it is rude to ask questions? maybe so. But I don't think it should be. Saying that it is rude is putting the pastor on pedastal, saying he should not be questioned. Just shut up and listen to what he says: no matter the "truthiness" level. How many sermons go into the nitty gritty of the bible? The parts that we discuss here that seem (to most) to be abhorrant? (You know, where god kills babies.) Any sermon I've been to skips over those parts, only to go into where "jesus loves" "god forgives", that sort of shit. Now you may say "well, they aren't REAL chrisians, then, if they don't dedicate their life to learning the way of the master." Tut tut to that.
Or maybe, just maybe, people should think again about their religious beliefs and what/if they really matter to them. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
I think the fact that a speaker does provide the basis of his comments thru scripture means that no one is left wondering if what he said is true or not. You, Buz, and ICANT (to name a few) shown all of us how differently the bible can be interperated. Each one of you has a different view. Now throw in slevesque, iano, etc... So you can't say that people can take it at face value when you know each pastor interperates the scripture he reads you. He explains it his way. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5
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hooah212002 writes:
I don't know, but perhaps that's true. It is is true, then that goes a long way toward explaining why so many Christians are so ignorant of their own religion.
I couldn't help but think something: a weekly sermon is about all the bible "learning" a run-of-the-mill every day christian has. Now you say that it is rude to ask questions? maybe so. But I don't think it should be.
There are activities in life where it is rude to ask questions. There are other activities where questions are welcome. This is all largely a matter of social tradition. So you could attend a Church and ask questions during the sermon. People would soon let you know that you were very rude and that your kind of rudeness would not be welcomed. On the other hand, you could join a Church, and work to change the traditions from within for that particular church. And if you were successful, perhaps you could work to spread that change to other churches. That's the way traditions change - by actions of people working together to bring about those changes.
Saying that it is rude is putting the pastor on pedastal, saying he should not be questioned.
No, it doesn't put him on a pedestal, and it does not say that he should not be questioned. It only says that he should not be questioned during the sermon. That he is not to be questioned during the sermon is not a matter of respecting the pastor. It is a matter of respecting the members of a congregation who came to participate in a ceremonial ritual and don't want it to be changed into a drama. If ceremonial ritual is not your kind of thing, then skip the Church service, and go to their bible study instead. Questions will likely be welcomed there.
How many sermons go into the nitty gritty of the bible?
That probably varies between Churches. Those that do quote parts of the bible are probably quote mining (taking little snippets out of context). Generally speaking, people want the sermon to be edifying, not educating.
The parts that we discuss here that seem (to most) to be abhorrant? (You know, where god kills babies.)
Don't expect that in a sermon. Maybe in a bible study class, though I would guess that many bible studies skip past those sections. But if you were a regular member of a bible study class, you might be able to insist that those sections be included.
After reading NWR, Buz, and Peg's statements, ...
Just to be clear - for most of the issues that arise at evcforum, I am on the opposite side to Buzsaw and Peg. And no, I am not really recommending that you join a Church or a bible study class. I'm just pointing out that those are the places to go to change church traditions or to ask difficult questions.
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Apothecus Member (Idle past 2438 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: |
Hey hooah.
The church I attend touts as its main selling point that sermons are nothing more than large group bible studies. Each Sunday, one verse is highlighted and dissected, and each subsequent Sunday highlights the next subsequent verse, etc... "Verse by verse", book by book until you get to the end. Then you start over. Which is all fine and dandy, because on the face of it you'd think, "Hey, think of how much I'll be learning. We're really digging in to the text!" But as every different denomination has its own dogma, so this church spews some pretty fundamentalist, literalist BS as its dogma. So while you may think you're getting some straightforward tutelage on what the bible actually says, you're just being fed your church's interpretation of what they think these verses mean. What a joke it all is. Have a good one.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2134 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
There are approximately 38,000 Christian denominations in the world. This statistic takes into consideration cultural distinctions of denominations in different countries. Source Which one, if any, has the inside track on the truth, Truth, TRUTH, or TRVTH? And how would one determine this empirically? Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
But if you are getting no question time, except for after the sermon (when the pastor is ready to leave, as are you, so time is limited), then all you are getting is how HE interperates each passage, no?
"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
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hooah212002 Member (Idle past 829 days) Posts: 3193 Joined: |
No, it doesn't put him on a pedestal, and it does not say that he should not be questioned. It only says that he should not be questioned during the sermon. That he is not to be questioned during the sermon is not a matter of respecting the pastor. It is a matter of respecting the members of a congregation who came to participate in a ceremonial ritual and don't want it to be changed into a drama. Good point. I guess it really comes down to either a) changing the way people view church time, or b) changing how people view their faith. "Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws." -Carl Sagan
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Peg Member (Idle past 4957 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
hooah212002 writes: You, Buz, and ICANT (to name a few) shown all of us how differently the bible can be interperated. Each one of you has a different view. Now throw in slevesque, iano, etc... So you can't say that people can take it at face value when you know each pastor interperates the scripture he reads you. He explains it his way. i agree with you that no one should ever take it at face value I beleive that a church's teachings are important to be accurate, however i also believe that the church should be 'practicing' christianity and this is probably more important then having teachings that are 100% accurate. Its probably more accurate to say 'this is what we believe this scripture means at this present time' rather then 'this is absolute truth' Even if the JW's have some inaccuracy's in their teachings (and there have been), it does not matter to me because they are practicing christianity. Jesus apostles were not always accurate in their expectations of Jesus, yet he still chose them Edited by Peg, : No reason given. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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