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Author Topic:   Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 1 of 657 (578687)
09-02-2010 10:26 AM


Buz has claimed that there is some evidence that the Biblical Exodus happened.

While the saga itself has none of the attributes of an historical account and all of the attributes of an extended fable meant to provide food and shelter for the storyteller over many nights, it is always possible that there was some small truth that led to the creation of the longer fable.

This thread is meant as an opportunity for Buz in particular but anyone else who might think it is an actual historical account to present their best arguments in support of that position.

Bible Accuracy if possible.

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Message 2 of 657 (578690)
09-02-2010 10:28 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 3 of 657 (578715)
09-02-2010 12:11 PM


Let's begin with the format of the fable.

The Exodus myth is written as a series of short episodes, much like the old weekly theater shorts. In the early Egypt section of the myth, Pharaoh decides that there are too many Hebrews, so he hatches a plot.

Pharaoh calls in the two Hebrew midwives (note the fist sign that it is fantasy, that even though the Hebrews were breeding too fast, there were only two midwives). Also, like any good urban myth, details that are really irrelevant to the story but make it sound real are added, in this case the names of the two Hebrew midwives.

Pharaoh's plan is to have these two women kill off any boy children and let the girls live. Of course that is a really stupid idea if the purpose was to reduce the Hebrew population since it is girls that actually bear new kids, not men. I imagine that even Pharaoh knew that. It also is silly because just a few paragraphs earlier it was said that the Hebrews were being used for labor and males do more work of that sort then women. BUT... it is an essential part of creating a hero myth, it helped make the birth of the hero something important, messianic.

Episode One ends with the typical cliffhanger, Pharaoh orders every male child to be thrown in the river.

Edited by jar, : Added closing )


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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PaulK
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Message 4 of 657 (578943)
09-03-2010 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by jar
09-02-2010 12:11 PM


One point to add. Exodus contains no reliable historical markers. For instance, the Pharaohs are never named. Those markers that do exist (such as the names of the cities allegedly built by the enslaved Israelites) are often taken to be anachronisms.

It seems impossible to fit the Exodus - as it appears in the Bible - into history. It seems safe to say that Exodus as we have it was written long after the events had occurred, and the details that might allow us to assign a date had already been forgotten.


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jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 5 of 657 (579088)
09-03-2010 3:09 PM


Well, as expected, it doesn't look like Buz or anyone else is stepping up to present any evidence in support of the Biblical Exodus fable.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 488
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 657 (579190)
09-03-2010 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-02-2010 10:26 AM


Pharaoh was as thick as a brick!
One aspect of the exodus story that i always found intriguing is that to punish the Israelites, Pharaoh forced them to make bricks (apparently, the main task for which they were enslaved) without using straw, thus making weak, inferior bricks. But the Israeli slaves would not themselves have lived in brick houses. Their abodes would have been made of straw or thatch at best. The bricks would have been for use in the houses and buildings of the Egyptian upper classes who could afford such luxury and expense. So the Pharaohs punishment would have had no effect upon the Israelites, but would have placed the Pharaohs friends and supporters in crumbling structures that would collapse around them with the first rain or wind storm.

I'm sure that when the Egyptian taskmasters came around to see how the brick making was going, the Israelites would wail "Oh nos! Bricks without straw! How shall be ever endure?!"


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Larni
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From: Liverpool
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Message 7 of 657 (579194)
09-03-2010 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AnswersInGenitals
09-03-2010 7:39 PM


Re: Pharaoh was as thick as a brick!
Don't forget that Pharaoh (which one I wonder?) was not really in control of his actions as YHWH 'hardened his heart' to cause no end of trouble for the Israelites.
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 8 of 657 (579197)
09-03-2010 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Larni
09-03-2010 7:44 PM


Re: Pharaoh was as thick as a brick!
Actually that is just another example that shows the story was designed as a serial. When it looks like Pharaoh is about to let the people go, the story teller has God step in and change Pharaoh's mind.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar
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Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 9 of 657 (579228)
09-03-2010 8:57 PM


Did the Biblical Exodus ever happen?
Bump for Buz.

Here is your big chance Buz. Let's see all the evidence for the Exodus and see if any of it can stand up to examination.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 488
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 10 of 657 (579270)
09-03-2010 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
09-03-2010 7:50 PM


Re: Pharaoh was as thick as a brick! (And so is god.)
Ever wonder why, if god has this divine capability to change peoples minds and attitudes in any way he wishes, why he didn't just change the minds and attitudes of Noah's contemporaries instead of drowning them all?
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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 11 of 657 (579418)
09-04-2010 3:02 PM


Bump for Buz.
Here's your big chance Buz. Let's see the evidence you claim exists for the Biblical Exodus. Please bring us some evidence that there was some Biblical Exodus.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
greyseal
Member (Idle past 1390 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


Message 12 of 657 (579672)
09-05-2010 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals
09-03-2010 11:35 PM


Re: Pharaoh was as thick as a brick! (And so is god.)
It's actually surprising how solid the idea of the ominiscient, omnipotentness of god is, given what actually happens in the Old Testament.

He makes mistakes, he hardens hearts, he is fooled by various tricks, his mind is changed, he has to travel to get places and can't always make his will known.

In short, he is far from omniscient and nowhere near omnipotent. He is a very powerful creature as described, but hardly the last word in power.


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frako
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Posts: 2705
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 13 of 657 (579686)
09-05-2010 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
09-02-2010 10:26 AM


im guessing 600 000 isrealites traveling trough the deserd would leave some trace, a row of pottery, lamb bones, stories of other kinggdoms having seen a whole mass of ppl lost and wandering trough the desert whitout a map and to proud to ask for directions. nothing simmilar anywhere

im also guessing sinc the egyptians where very burocratict that somwhre on an old parchemnt someonoe would find somthing simmilar to this: after the 600 000 isrealites left there is a large strawless brick shortage in eypt and the sorrounding lands prices for bricks whit straws have gone way up more taxsation is needed to build the nexst temple.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 14 of 657 (579846)
09-06-2010 10:04 AM


Bump for Buz
Hey Buz, still waiting for you to provide any evidence that the Biblical Exodus ever happened.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 15 of 657 (579901)
09-06-2010 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by jar
09-06-2010 10:04 AM


Re: Bump for Buz
Jar, unlike you, I don't do computer 24/7. I'm a very busy sole proprietor of a business involving some travel, do church stuff, garden and some ot other activities. I do computer, usually on the quick and off to other projects.

Just because I don't get to responses as soon as you think I should doesn't mean that I'm running off. Then, of course when evidence is aired, you simply waive it off as if none had been aired, so I don't see a lot of reason to even respond to some of what you're demanding.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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