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Author | Topic: Design evidence # 111: The heart | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
DanskerMan Inactive Member |
The human heart is a marvel of engineering. Lets have a look at a simple heartbeat from Page not found - Texas Medical Center :
quote:(emphasis added) The Texas Heart Institute recognizes DESIGN! And so they should. The heart could not have evolved in darwinian step-by-step fashion. Everything has to be in place and working properly for the heart to function. The four valves, the four chambers, the intricate network of blood vessels that enter and exit the heart, the pacemaker (sinoatrial node), the accelerator nerves that link the heart to the central nervous system, not to mention the centrifugal flow of blood within the blood vessels.The blood vessel pathways are helical and designed with a spiraling effect built in, this prevents a potential for friction to build up as the blood flows through the heart, the arteries, the capillaries, and back to the heart through the veins. The whole system is interdependent and precisely tuned, if it fails in one part, the whole system falters. (ref: Body by design, Dr. Alan Gillen) The heart pumps approx. 2000 gallons of blood each day. Each heartbeat is perfect with valves preventing backflow, and specified chambers for specified functions. It is a wonderful testament to an Intelligent Designer who created in His divine wisdom. ------------------"You can no more alter God than a pebble can alter the rhythm of the Pacific."
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lpetrich Inactive Member |
Demonstrably false bull excrement.
Which suggests an extreme level of ignorance of comparative anatomy and embryology. There are many species with much simpler "designs" of heart. Fish have two-chambered hearts, and many amphibians and reptiles have three-chambered hearts. Furthermore, in embryonic development, three-chambered and four-chambered hearts emerge from two-chambered ones; the heart splits in two, becoming two sub-hearts. Also, human embryos, like amniote embryos in general, go through a phase where their circulatory system has a very fishlike configuration, with ventral and dorsal aortas and aortic arches next to the gill bars. Some of those arches then self-destruct, which is an illogical way to install plumbing. Finally, where does sonnikke get those numbers? Is he referring to some big list somewhere?
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David unfamous Inactive Member |
"If it fails in one part, the whole system falters. It is a wonderful testament to an Intelligent Designer who created in His divine wisdom."
Until sonnike understands the very first basics of what evolution actually is, he'll never understand how ridiculous his logic is, and we'll keep getting these mysteriously numbered lists of hilarity. Coming soon:#67: Legs - How could legs walk around by themselves before bodies had evolved?
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
[QUOTE] by lpetrich+++++++++++++++++++++++
Finally, where does sonnikke get those numbers? Is he referring to some big list somewhere? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Who knows, I've been asking him for some time now and he isn't forthcoming with any answers. He claims I added another piece of evidence to that list (brilliant guy that I am). I asked if he'd at least tell me what number it was so I'd know the size of the list, but he wouldn't tell me... such ingratitude! holmes
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
[QUOTE]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The heart pumps approx. 2000 gallons of blood each day. Each heartbeat is perfect with valves preventing backflow, and specified chambers for specified functions. It is a wonderful testament to an Intelligent Designer who created in His divine wisdom. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Each heartbeat is PERFECT? Wow, someone tell that to my doctor. I was born with a heart murmur where my valves allow for plenty of backflow. What a wonderful testament to an Intelligent Designer who created in His divine wisdom.
[QUOTE] by sonnikke++++++++++++++++++++++Topic: Design evidence # 111: The heart +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Nothing to see here folks, move along. If you've seen garbage once you've seen it a million times and we've already seen this garbage twice... holmes
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
Holmes:
quote:Well then Holmes, YOU of all people should appreciate how delicate and precise this system is, and how any flaw is detrimental. Something that couldn't just gradually assemble itself, by random mutation and natural selection. If you don't like the topic, nobody's holding a gun to your head. Regards,S ------------------"You can no more alter God than a pebble can alter the rhythm of the Pacific."
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Gzus Inactive Member |
Design evidence # 399 The scum that inhabits the hairs of my big toe
How beautifully and wonderfully it is made! a perfect ecosystem in complete harmony with its surroundings! what an accurate reflection of the creator's own toe-scum!
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Zephan Inactive Member |
Gzus,
Actually toe scum was where all life came from. I thought you believed in evolution?
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
quote: Apparently the source of the list. I did a fairly hard try last night, to track down the list on-line - no success. I did find lots of links to buying the book, at various creationist sites. Moose
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
hee hee..I guess that's the best you could come up with.
That's okay, evidently I'm communicating with an "odd species of African apes"
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
This particular odd ape suggests that you go find a beginning biology text and read up on such things as earthworm hearts. Ten little pulsing enlargements in blood vessels... a great sort of start to build on over a few hundred million years.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
So you claim that you're a different species?
Well, the board rules says nothing about which species are allowed to participate. We're not speciesists. Any fish, plant, amphibian or sea slug can participate and debate with other primate members of this board. [Admins: sorry bout the post. I might offend everyone on this board {except sonnikke} because I assume all members are advanced primates (i.e. humans). Apologies to those who are not human here, like the rodent and the moose who's abusing one admin's persona in Free For All]
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Silent H Member (Idle past 5819 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: |
[QUOTE] by sonnikke++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well then Holmes, YOU of all people should appreciate how delicate and precise this system is, and how any flaw is detrimental. Something that couldn't just gradually assemble itself, by random mutation and natural selection. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ How can there be a flaw if it is god's perfect handiwork (your claim)? The fact that there are flaws in hearts indicates their imperfection and why each heart is the result of natural processes... built up through a long chain of imperfect reproductions (altered by "random mutation", and weeded out through the imperfect process of "natural selection").
[QUOTE] by sonnikke++++++++++++++++++++++++++If you don't like the topic, nobody's holding a gun to your head. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I don't mind the topic. My problem is that your posts have nothing to do with the topic you say they do. I keep coming in hoping to see some "evidence for design" advanced from a scientific perspective (scientific evidence). Your posts are merely statements of belief, not evidence. You even say so when someone starts critiquing your evidence. Your "evidence" is so weak it doesn't even meet the criteria of ID theory. The point of forums are to discuss theories and evidence, which is what I hope to do. But you stop responding to earlier topics which you started (when you can't argue them properly) only to start a new topic with the exact same reasoning. That's bad form... or bad forum? What's worse is that your post for this topic is less coherent than for the other two topics (which you have not finished). Your reasoning here hinges on Platonic "ideals" and equivocation to make its point. Believe me, when people advance logic this bad it makes me wish they'd held a gun to my head instead. holmes
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Zephan Inactive Member |
quote: Well, holmes, that there is one sure fire way to prove to yourself God doesn't exist. If you only had the balls.
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DanskerMan Inactive Member |
quote:God's original perfect creation is degenerating because of the second law of thermodynamics, as you know. Your(evo's) beloved "mutations" which are supposed to increase information and "create" new specified complexity, does the exact opposite. A heart flaw is a good example of the "wonders" of mutations. The very fact that we all aren't born with heart defects or many other defects, is evidence for initial design, since mutations upon mutations without intelligence would firstly not even exist, and secondly prove very deadly. The heart is incredible, the amount of work it does day in and day out. It's layout and design coupled with the interdependence on the brain and nervous system is very strong evidence of specified complexity.http://www.leaderu.com/...ces/dembski/docs/bd-specified.html If you tried to give a step by step description of how the human heart might have evolved, what kind of story would that be? And, yes...if you really want to prove God's existence, a gun would suffice... Regards,S ------------------"You can no more alter God than a pebble can alter the rhythm of the Pacific."
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