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Author Topic:   Simple evidence for ID
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 1 of 135 (201829)
04-24-2005 3:17 PM


In a sunday schooling class I had a long time ago, a classmate of mine once stated that people were too perfect for everything to be an accident. And it wasn't just people. To him, nature was too wonderous to not have a creator.
Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
A self proclaimed great philosopher once said, "The simple fact of how things look the way they do, how humans look like humans and leaves look like leaves is evidence for intelligent design."
I look out my window and I see people walking, some in pairs, around while others sitting beneath trees reading. I see trees with green leaves and birds flying among blossoming flowers. I look up and I see little patches of white clouds drifting across the blue sky with the sun shining everywhere.
Most importantly, I see individual humans having legs to walk around, having arms and hands to work and build things, having eyes to see and ears to hear, having minds to learn, grow, and dream, having mouths to eat and talk, etc.
Coincidence that everything I described, and more!, fit so well together on this world?
To quote a preacher I once listened to, "scientists and professors may have a lot of facts, but I see no wisdom in them." While they see a process driven in part by randomness and godlessness, others see a creator behind all of these wonders.
Job 12:7-11 "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish of the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind. Does not the ear test words as the tongue tastes food?
I think it is obvious where I want this to go.
This message has been edited by Troy, 04-24-2005 03:56 PM

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 Message 5 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 3:55 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 6 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 4:04 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 28 by mick, posted 04-24-2005 8:28 PM coffee_addict has replied
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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 135 (201834)
04-24-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 3:17 PM


Troy s simple evidence...
Woah, dude. You really freak me out sometimes. One minute you are the rational and detached scientist...now you are actually presenting a great opening post for I.D. I know that you want a debate to form out of this, so I ask you in all honesty:
Where do YOU want this post to go?
And are you fishing for innocent fundies to bludgeon with your logic?

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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 135 (201836)
04-24-2005 3:29 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 4 of 135 (201841)
04-24-2005 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 3:17 PM


I'll raise the point I mentioned in the previous off-shoot in the other thread...
What evidence do we have that this is the absolute perfect design from an absolute perfect creator? I suggest that nature as we know it is continuously evolving and the current state is inherently flawed, and will remain flawed since there can be no end-all perfect build in nature.
It would be interesting to see if there were some suggestions on improving current design, for the human body for example. What implications would such an experiment have on defining the creator?

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CK
Member (Idle past 4128 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 5 of 135 (201844)
04-24-2005 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 3:17 PM


It's a bit of a meaningless question - humans look like humans because of 100 of environmental factors. If the gravity was a bit stronger you be asking why little people look like little people!

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 6 of 135 (201846)
04-24-2005 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 3:17 PM


quote:
The simple fact of how things look the way they do, how humans look like humans and leaves look like leaves is evidence for intelligent design.
I don't think this is funny.

listen to phil collins and nas

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 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 04-24-2005 3:17 PM coffee_addict has replied

Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 7 of 135 (201848)
04-24-2005 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Trump won
04-24-2005 4:04 PM


Shouldn't you be thanking me for getting a thread started for you? I'm done. I now formally turn this thread over to Chris.
Peace!

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 8 of 135 (201849)
04-24-2005 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by coffee_addict
04-24-2005 4:09 PM


wow.

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dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 9 of 135 (201850)
04-24-2005 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by CK
04-24-2005 3:55 PM


When asking a question about a creation it's often helpful to determine what the goal was. Things ARE because they are; however, things are CREATED to serve a purpose. What is that purpose? I believe Christians state that humans are God's most prized creation. The pinnacle of self-awareness and self-improvement.
But what was the goal of creating a mind such as that? If I am creating a mind, and I am the all-powerful God who can do anything, what would I create for my humans? Would I limit them? Our minds suffer from several major deficiencies.
Neurons are slow. Neurons have a firing rate of only 200 times per second, and the signals travel at a maximum speed of only 150 meters per second. We lose neurons as we age, rather than adding on additional brainpower. Neurons cannot be directly "reprogrammed" by our high-level consciousness. We can't improve our own "source code." We can't retain our memories indefinitely. We can't transmit thoughts from one brain to another. When the fragile biological brain decays or is destroyed, the mind dies with it.
Now WE, the "created" are the "creators." We are engineering not just brains but minds. A desktop nanocomputer consuming 100 watts of power would process 1018 instructions per second (Based on a CPU-scale system containing a million transistors that would fit within a 400-nanometer cube, run at 1GHz, and consume 60 nanowatts -- MIT/SIAI estimate 2004). That's a billion billion instructions per second, roughly a billion times faster than a modern Pentium chip, and an order of magnitude higher than most estimates of the power of a human brain. (1011 neurons and 1014 synapses firing 200 times per second ~ 1017 operations per second.) A faster nanocomputer might consume a hundred kilowatts, process 1021 operations per second - ten thousand brainpower - and still fit inside a single cubic centimeter.
The mind can be expanded upon. The question is, was this the goal? A self-aware human mind created by "The Creator" that would expand upon itself through knowledge and technological advancement? Or is such a "Created Creator" evidence that such a Godlike singularity does not exist since His goals do not seem to have been well thought out?
This message has been edited by dsv, Sunday, April 24, 2005 03:20 PM

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 10 of 135 (201853)
04-24-2005 4:30 PM


Lam has no intentions of pursuing this thread. Its sole purpose is to I guess mock me. I request immediate closure unless Lam quotes my words in the OP and decides to back up what he says here, what he has made is a monstrosity of a lie that holds no truth to what I believe. I don't know wheree he gets this stuff.
Percy please check your email

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dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 11 of 135 (201862)
04-24-2005 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Trump won
04-24-2005 4:30 PM


I don't understand why you would want the thread to be closed. You, yourself, wanted to start a topic on this, now you don't want to discuss it or bring up any of the points you had in mind for the thread?

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 Message 10 by Trump won, posted 04-24-2005 4:30 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 12 of 135 (201864)
04-24-2005 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by dsv
04-24-2005 4:49 PM


These aren't my words. I don't agree with everything he writes. I don't want a topic on his beliefs because mine are different. I'm not putting my time into Lam's beliefs.

listen to phil collins and nas

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Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 13 of 135 (201865)
04-24-2005 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Trump won
04-24-2005 4:53 PM


Ok, fine, I'm taking this thread back. Watching Harry Potter right now...

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dsv
Member (Idle past 4724 days)
Posts: 220
From: Secret Underground Hideout
Joined: 08-17-2004


Message 14 of 135 (201867)
04-24-2005 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Trump won
04-24-2005 4:53 PM


I wish I hadn't wasted my time with my reply then... bah!

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 15 of 135 (201868)
04-24-2005 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by dsv
04-24-2005 4:57 PM


.....
what is that suppposed to mean

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