Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 109 (8803 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 11-23-2017 7:43 AM
428 online now:
Heathen, jar, PaulK, Pressie, ramoss (5 members, 423 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 822,878 Year: 27,484/21,208 Month: 1,397/1,714 Week: 240/365 Day: 9/73 Hour: 0/4

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23456
...
23NextFF
Author Topic:   My HUGE problem with creationist thinking (re: Which version of creationism)
Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


(1)
Message 1 of 336 (619146)
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


Hi All!

The theory of evolution is based entirely on empirical observation. In this way, evolution, is an objective explanation of why life is the way that it is.

There are, however, many different theories of creation. The Christian religion has their belief which is different from the Muslim belief which is different from the North American First Nation's beliefs and so on and so on.

If creation is to be taught in the education system, whose version of creation should be taught? You certainly cannot teach ALL the thousands of different versions as truth. The very nature of teaching creation implies that there is only one version of creation.

If you teach one version of creation over a different version of creation, is this not racist? Who decides whose culture is valid and whose is invalid?

kind regards,

Acalepha

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added the "(re: Which version of creationism)" to topic title.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 06-08-2011 1:24 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 06-08-2011 7:16 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 6 by dwise1, posted 06-08-2011 8:22 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 8:57 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 06-09-2011 7:46 AM Acalepha has responded
 Message 11 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-09-2011 10:52 AM Acalepha has responded
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 06-10-2011 8:10 PM Acalepha has not yet responded
 Message 126 by Happy Forever, posted 09-28-2011 7:52 AM Acalepha has not yet responded
 Message 130 by Hawkins, posted 10-14-2011 10:46 PM Acalepha has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12534
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 2 of 336 (619147)
06-08-2011 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


The image seems unrelated to your topic and should be removed.

You could use the image as your avatar - click on the Profile link near the top left of the page, then go to the bottom of the profile page. You can set your avatar there.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 2:15 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 3 of 336 (619148)
06-08-2011 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
06-08-2011 1:24 PM


Hello esteemed director
The reason I chose the graphic of the DNA molecule was because I felt it represented the idea of the gene and evolution. It was also a pretty picture. I respectfully disagree with your opinion that the graphic was not relevant to my post.

kind regards

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 06-08-2011 1:24 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12534
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 336 (619150)
06-08-2011 7:03 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the My HUGE problem with creationist thinking. thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 5 of 336 (619151)
06-08-2011 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


Many have asked which one, usually to no avail or a bs answer.

Acalepha writes:

If you teach one version of creation over a different version of creation, is this not racist? Who decides whose culture is valid and whose is invalid?

I dont think it would be racist to discount any religion over another though, I would venture to say that there are lots of people from all races who practice most mainstream religions.

There are, however, many different theories of creation. The Christian religion has their belief which is different from the Muslim belief which is different from the North American First Nation's beliefs and so on and so on.

I feel this is the perfect example of why creation should never be taught in schools, at least not as science. As another course of study I feel that is best left to college level courses, comparative religion, or theology...ect.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 1:54 PM fearandloathing has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2999
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 6 of 336 (619154)
06-08-2011 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


The same issue arises whenever they want to post the Ten Commandments in classroom. Because of the different ways you can combine or split what's in those verses, the Jews, Catholics, and Protestants all have different versions. So which version is the government supposed to choose and hence endorse that particular religion? Why the Protestant one, of course, though most people advocating it will shy away from discussion when they learn about the different versions.

In a letter, the late Dr. Henry Morris of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) informed me that the "evolution model" is not just "atheistic evolution", but also includes "most of the world's religions, both ancient and modern." Therefore, I'm sure that he would have answered that his own version would be taught, of course, because all the rest are part of the "evolution model."

Yes, it is a BS answer. But I don't doubt that he actually believed it.

Edited by dwise1, : Yes, it is a BS answer.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 1:58 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 884 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 7 of 336 (619156)
06-08-2011 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


Are you kidding me? The United States of America was founded by Christians as a Christian nation. It has always been a Christian nation and it will always be a Christian nation (until the rapture, of course). Since Christianity is the one true religion in the world and all other religions are false, of course the Christian version of Creation should be taught as scientific fact because it is scientific fact, Amen.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Panda, posted 06-08-2011 9:33 PM Taz has responded
 Message 14 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 2:05 PM Taz has not yet responded

Panda
Member (Idle past 1305 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 8 of 336 (619159)
06-08-2011 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
06-08-2011 8:57 PM


Taz writes:

Are you kidding me? The United States of America was founded by Christians as a Christian nation. It has always been a Christian nation and it will always be a Christian nation (until the rapture, of course). Since Christianity is the one true religion in the world and all other religions are false, of course the Christian version of Creation should be taught as scientific fact because it is scientific fact, Amen.


Acalepha might appreciate this link:
Poe's Law

Edited by Panda, : wrong url


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 8:57 PM Taz has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 9:35 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 16 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 2:12 PM Panda has responded

Taz
Member (Idle past 884 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 9 of 336 (619161)
06-08-2011 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Panda
06-08-2011 9:33 PM


You mean this link?

By the way, your link is broken.

Edit again.

Or this link.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Panda, posted 06-08-2011 9:33 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10068
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 10 of 336 (619215)
06-09-2011 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


That's what ID is for
Acalepha writes:

There are, however, many different theories of creation. The Christian religion has their belief which is different from the Muslim belief which is different from the North American First Nation's beliefs and so on and so on.

The solution is to teach intelligent design, in which the identity and actions of the creator or creators are sufficiently vaguely referenced, that few would find ID objectionable.

Who decides whose culture is valid and whose is invalid?

The school board, which in turn is elected by the community. First amendment, Schmirst amendment.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 2:16 PM NoNukes has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 11 of 336 (619267)
06-09-2011 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Acalepha
06-08-2011 12:49 PM


There are, however, many different theories of creation. The Christian religion has their belief which is different from the Muslim belief which is different from the North American First Nation's beliefs and so on and so on.

If creation is to be taught in the education system, whose version of creation should be taught

Right, so you have to go with a diluted-down vague non-descript version of creation like Intelligent Design.

If there was a basis in empirical observation for Intelligent Design, then it could be an acceptable part of a science course.

If you teach one version of creation over a different version of creation, is this not racist?

No, because it doesn't have anything to do with race. Perhaps, "biased" or mayby "bigoted" would be a better word.

Who decides whose culture is valid and whose is invalid?

THis becomes irrelevant if you're not going to teach specific creation stories.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Acalepha, posted 06-08-2011 12:49 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 2:32 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 12 of 336 (619330)
06-09-2011 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by fearandloathing
06-08-2011 7:16 PM


Call it what you will...
The end result is that you are picking the belief system of one ethnic group over the belief system of another. Is it right to subordinate the myths and values of one people over another group? This type of prejudice preceeds brainwashing as it asks the citizen to ignore their set of beliefs for one that is fed to them as "truth".

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by fearandloathing, posted 06-08-2011 7:16 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by fearandloathing, posted 06-09-2011 2:07 PM Acalepha has responded
 Message 90 by Mazzy, posted 06-12-2011 9:23 PM Acalepha has not yet responded

  
Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 13 of 336 (619331)
06-09-2011 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by dwise1
06-08-2011 8:22 PM


thank you for your reply
America is a secular nation. When the religious beliefs of any particular group start determining the governing practices of the United States, then America will cease to be the land of the free and become a fundamentalist religious state like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by dwise1, posted 06-08-2011 8:22 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Acalepha
Junior Member (Idle past 2266 days)
Posts: 25
Joined: 06-08-2011


Message 14 of 336 (619334)
06-09-2011 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
06-08-2011 8:57 PM


Dear Taz
1.If the United States is a christian nation, why are other religions and viewpoints allowed within her borders?

2.Do you support the imprisonment or conversion of those people who do not have Christian beliefs as their spirituality?

3.Should the laws of the United States reflect the contents of the bible and the values of the Christian church?

4.What should be done to people who transgress the laws espoused in the bible?

5.If the constitution of the United States of America contradicts the content of the bible, which set of beliefs should one follow?

I am very interested to hear of your responses to my question Taz. I promise to answer any question that you have of me to your satisfaction.

kind regards,

Acalepha


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taz, posted 06-08-2011 8:57 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 1737 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 15 of 336 (619335)
06-09-2011 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Acalepha
06-09-2011 1:54 PM


Re: Call it what you will...
Acalepha writes:

The end result is that you are picking the belief system of one ethnic group over the belief system of another. Is it right to subordinate the myths and values of one people over another group? This type of prejudice preceeds brainwashing as it asks the citizen to ignore their set of beliefs for one that is fed to them as "truth".

kind regards,

Acalepha

HI,

My point is that not all religions are not exclusive to any one race or ethnic group, some might be, but most I can think of are not. Christianity is a fair mix of all races. There are many Asian Muslims as well as African and other races as well....ect

I think,as was said earlier, bigoted is probably a better description.


"I hate to advocate the use of drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 1:54 PM Acalepha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Acalepha, posted 06-09-2011 2:53 PM fearandloathing has acknowledged this reply

  
1
23456
...
23NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017