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Author Topic:   Belief in God is scientific.
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 1 of 262 (695118)
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


My brain is a stand alone version of the most complex thing in the known universe. It is one of billions that make up humanity. Humanity more or less classes the brain as a computer, and lots of these computers independently and through a myriad of experiences called life come to the conclusion that there is a God. More people - brains - computers come to the answer 'God' than those that come to the answer 'no God'.

My question is why isn't the human belief in God classed as scientific? When the most powerful computer network in the known universe comes to the answer 'God'?

To me it seems that science is flawed, scientists more or less discount there own existence, proffering only to have eyes and a calculator with which to make answers and not using the full power of thought.

I know i sound maybe a little troll like but that is not my intention. Also i am not sure where this should go?

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Put in blank lines.

Edited by divermike1974, : Spelling


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Admin
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Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 2 of 262 (695120)
04-03-2013 8:59 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Belief in God is scientific. thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Theodoric
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From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
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Message 3 of 262 (695121)
04-03-2013 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


My brain is a stand alone version of the most complex thing in the known universe.

Starting with an unevidenced assertion is not a good start. Do you have any argument for this statement to at least get things started?

There are a few things you need to define before we can even examine this claim.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


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PaulK
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Message 4 of 262 (695122)
04-03-2013 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


I have to say that you're pretty much wrong about everything.

Belief in some sort of God is based much more on tradition than experience.

While the brain may be compared to a computer it certainly can't say that it is programmed in a way that would let us have much confidence in a conclusion like that - if anything, the opposite.

And scientific conclusions aren't decided by the majority vote of people in general because that doesn't work.


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jar
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(4)
Message 5 of 262 (695123)
04-03-2013 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


Comupter 101
Garbage in -------------> Garbage out.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Capt Stormfield
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Posts: 247
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 6 of 262 (695124)
04-03-2013 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


...lots of these computers independently and through a myriad of experiences called life come to the conclusion that there is a God.

Setting aside the problem that human development is anything but independent, does this mean that if enough of us use our computers to do astrology charting, that astrology would then become scientific?

Pen and ink are scientific in their underlying principles as well, but certainly capable of producing incorrect ideas when in the wrong hands. The memes written in our minds - and they are assuredly not written independently - are no more than ink on paper in this regard.

Capt.


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1.61803
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Posts: 2694
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 7 of 262 (695126)
04-03-2013 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


divermike1974 writes:

It is one of billions that make up humanity. Humanity more or less classes the brain as a computer, and lots of these computers independently and through a myriad of experiences called life come to the conclusion that there is a God.

This is what is known as the fallacy "appeal to popularity".
Just because something is supported by large numbers of folks does not make it so.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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Tangle
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(3)
Message 8 of 262 (695127)
04-03-2013 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


divermike1974 writes:

My brain is a stand alone version of the most complex thing in the known universe.

Then a chimp's brain is maybe the second most complex thing in the known universe. What does that tell us?

My question is why isn't the human belief in God classed as scientific?

The scientific method is designed with the specific purpose of removing human biases - beliefs, opinions, custom and practices and prejudices - from the problem.

Humans are not objective, they're really easily fooled by simple things and they are capable of believing almost anything. In order to resolve what is fantasy from what is reality, science insists on evidence. The fact that people are prone to irrational beliefs is the reason we have science.

And it's been proved to be far and away the best method of making sense of reality.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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dwise1
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(1)
Message 9 of 262 (695130)
04-03-2013 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
04-03-2013 9:35 AM


Re: Comupter 101
Garbage in -------------> Garbage out.

Rather, Garbage in -------------> Gospel out.

Which speaks to human perception of that garbage output.


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NoNukes
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Posts: 9721
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 10 of 262 (695132)
04-03-2013 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


To me it seems that science is flawed, scientists more or less discount there own existence, proffering only to have eyes and a calculator with which to make answers and not using the full power of thought.

Surely you've skipped some steps in this argument. Are you claiming to have reached the conclusion that God exists by using the scientific method? And why is it important to you that God exists be a scientific conclusion. Is science the same as truth to you?

Perhaps your own thinking is an example of why we actually apply rules for the processes used to obtain scientific results.

Also i am not sure where this should go?

Must resist ....fight... must not respond to straight line...

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 371 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 11 of 262 (695133)
04-03-2013 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


My brain is a stand alone version of the most complex thing in the known universe.

What does that even mean? What are you considering to be "the most complex thing in the universe"?

Humanity more or less classes the brain as a computer

Ahh, you've taken an analogy literally. The brain (human or otherwise) merely has similar capabilities or qualities to that of a computer. One of these the ability to process information.

and lots of these computers independently and through a myriad of experiences called life come to the conclusion that there is a God. More people - brains - computers come to the answer 'God' than those that come to the answer 'no God'.

Just because there are a lot of people that BELIEVE something doesn't make it so. At one time A LOT of people believed in witchcraft in some form or another (they either believed themselves witches or believed them worthy of burning at the stake). Also alchemy. What say you to those claims?

My question is why isn't the human belief in God classed as scientific?

Define scientific and we can tell you precisely why human beliefs are antithetical to science.

When the most powerful computer network in the known universe comes to the answer 'God'?

The most powerful computer network is not the human brain. Can your brain transfer even a single math problem to someone across the world? I can with an actual computer. I can even relay that information to someone that doesn't speak my language. Can your brain do that? Can your brain perform mathematic algorithms in a split second?

You put far too much stock into the human brain when even a home desktop computer, or even my smart phone, is far more efficient, yet my computer is atheist.

Define some of your terms then this discussion can move along at a better pace.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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New Cat's Eye
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Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 12 of 262 (695138)
04-03-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


My brain is a stand alone version of the most complex thing in the known universe.

Brains aren't "stand alone", they require bodies.

And the Mandelbrot set is infinitely complex:

So the brain isn't the most complex thing.

My question is why isn't the human belief in God classed as scientific? When the most powerful computer network in the known universe comes to the answer 'God'?

Because the conclusion of God didn't arrise from following the scientific method.

To me it seems that science is flawed, scientists more or less discount there own existence, proffering only to have eyes and a calculator with which to make answers and not using the full power of thought.

Be that as it may, science works. Its gets shit done.

So what's the problem?


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vimesey
Member
Posts: 877
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 13 of 262 (695145)
04-03-2013 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by divermike1974
04-03-2013 3:57 AM


and lots of these computers independently and through a myriad of experiences called life come to the conclusion that there is a God

A lot of people think Jeremy Kyle is must-see TV.

They are mistaken.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5530
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 14 of 262 (695148)
04-03-2013 2:18 PM


Forum name writes:

Is It Science?


No, it isn't.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

  
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 15 of 262 (695149)
04-03-2013 2:18 PM


Well it seems that some of you have a problem with my stand alone brain/computer. How is calling the brain the most complex thing in the KNOWN universe an un evidenced assertion? If you can show me another thing in the known universe that can sit alongside cognitive thought and consciousness at the pivotal point between quantum mechanics and relativity as the working of the human body and brain do then your going to be very famous indeed.
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