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Author Topic:   Judge orders baby name change based on her Christian beliefs
Heathen
Member
Posts: 1042
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 1 of 29 (704569)
08-12-2013 6:25 AM


A judge in the US has ordered a baby's first name to be changed from Messiah to Martin, arguing that the only true messiah is Jesus Christ...

so much for separation of church and state.
I can understand concern for the child having a stupid name but issuing a decree that the childs name be changed because:

"The word Messiah is a title and it's a title that has only been earned by one person and that one person is Jesus Christ,"

seems a bit off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23665106


Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 2 of 29 (704573)
08-12-2013 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Heathen
08-12-2013 6:25 AM


Doubt it would stand up.
Yup, even Judges can be ******. Fortunately in the US nonsense like that won't stand up.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10237
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 3 of 29 (704575)
08-12-2013 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
08-12-2013 8:37 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
Are there any legal limits on what one can name one's children in the US?

I understand that some countries publish lists of legally acceptable names from which parents must choose (Germany, Argentina etc.)

quote:
UK permits any name, except for those deemed offensive.

But there have been two children named Superman in the UK since 1984, along with six boys named Gandalf and 29 Gazzas, according to figures released last year by the genealogy website findmypast.com. There are even 36 Arsenals of both sexes.


Link

"Deemed offensive" is pretty vague. Somebody somewhere could find almost anything offensive and the name (Messiah) in this case would arguably qualify.

Should I have any more children I'll have to test the waters a bit and have some fun with the name registrars before lumping for something like John or Sarah.


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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10237
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 29 (704576)
08-12-2013 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Heathen
08-12-2013 6:25 AM


10 illegal names from around the world:

Link


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 5 of 29 (704577)
08-12-2013 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
08-12-2013 8:52 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
TTBOMK there are no name restrictions in the US and looking at the names that do crop up (like Meta World Peace) maybe it is something we should consider.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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onifre
Member (Idle past 899 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(2)
Message 6 of 29 (704598)
08-12-2013 12:50 PM


Just thought about this bit on the subject
Great joke on the subject:

- Oni


    
onifre
Member (Idle past 899 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 7 of 29 (704599)
08-12-2013 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
08-12-2013 9:04 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
When Prince changed his name to a symbol, Meta World Peace doesn't seem that bad. Chad Ocho Cinco is pretty cool, I think.

People in entertainment need to brand themselves and be known somehow. But I think working for UPS named any of the above would be ridiculous.

Like Louis CK said, there should be a law...

- Oni


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15567
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 8 of 29 (704600)
08-12-2013 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
08-12-2013 8:52 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
Straggler writes:

I understand that some countries publish lists of legally acceptable names from which parents must choose (Germany, Argentina etc.)


I recall hearing in the news years ago that the British government refused to register a baby girl as "Princess" because "only the Queen can name anybody a Princess".

I've also heard about the French government "cracking down" (I'm not sure in what manner) on "English" names such as Joan.

In Quebec, our French-Canadian brethern *ahem* freres won't even let you put a Chinese sign on your Chinese restaurant unless the French version is three times as big (or something like that).


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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 29 (704604)
08-12-2013 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
08-12-2013 8:37 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
Yup, even Judges can be ******. Fortunately in the US nonsense like that won't stand up.

"Won't stand up" in the US means spending your own time and money to appeal the decision to at least one reviewing court. If this case was in a jurisdiction I can practice in, I'd offer to take the case for free and attempt to get my fees back from the state as part of the judgement.

As some of our recent discussions in these forum suggest, large sections of the country take issue with the idea that Jesus Christ is the Messiah anyway.

Total BS. How many kids are named "Jesus" without causing an uproar?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


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jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


(5)
Message 10 of 29 (704606)
08-12-2013 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by NoNukes
08-12-2013 1:21 PM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
Down here there would be no yards mowed were it not for Jesus.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 1135 days)
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 11 of 29 (704608)
08-12-2013 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
08-12-2013 9:04 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
Judges have extremely wide latitude in child custody and child support cases. Literally their only guiding principle is "the best interests of the child." They can make just about any ruling they can imagine if they can cover it under that justification.

If this judge had said "that's ridiculous, this child will be mocked in school and suffer psychological trauma, for the best interest of the child the name must be changed," then this would be a non-issue. The ruling would almost certainly be upheld.

But in this case the judge explicitly referred to her own personal religious beliefs in a clear violation of the First Amendment. There's at least a chance the appeal will revert the name.

Unless the appellate judge uses the justification above...


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

Nihil supernum


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ringo
Member
Posts: 15567
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 12 of 29 (704613)
08-12-2013 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
08-12-2013 1:28 PM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
jar writes:

Down here there would be no yards mowed were it not for Jesus.


On Rawhide in the late 1950s there was a character named Jesus but in the credits they spelled it "Hey Soos".
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subbie
Member
Posts: 3508
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 13 of 29 (704614)
08-12-2013 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by NoNukes
08-12-2013 1:21 PM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
The article that I read said it was a "child support magistrate" who decided this. I'm not familiar with Tennessee procedure, but in general, magistrate decisions are reviewable by a trial court level judge. Hopefully, they'll be able to do something like that at minimal cost or effort.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1859
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 14 of 29 (704618)
08-12-2013 3:22 PM


There was a terrible boy's joke from way back then. Went something like this:

Family moves into a new town with their twin children, one a boy and one a girl (not identical). There is that typical one room red schoolhouse and they are enrolled.

First day, the teacher is introducing all the students to each other. She gets to the boy and asks him to state his name. He replies "Dickhead".

The teacher shreiks! "No! - we will not allow abusive language in this classroom! Now please say your name for the class."

Again he replies "Dickhead."

Again she throws a fit. She tells the boy if he answers in that manner again he'll be sent home with a note to his parents. Then she asks "Now - tell me the truth, what is your real name?"

The boy is on the verge of tears, but he repeats again "Dickhead. It's the truth."

So the teacher writes a quick note, comes over and grabs him by the ear and is leading him out. The rest of the room still quiet, as if paralyzed.

The boy looks over at his sister. He says "Come along, Fuckface. You might's well. She ain't gonna be lettin' you stay here either."


- xongsmith, 5.7d

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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1513
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 15 of 29 (704642)
08-13-2013 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
08-12-2013 8:52 AM


Re: Doubt it would stand up.
I understand that some countries publish lists of legally acceptable names from which parents must choose (Germany, Argentina etc.)

I don't know of any countries with legally acceptable names you must choose. Usually, if you want to pick a name not on the list, you can do so, but you need permission from some sort of registrar or magistrate. That's why there are plenty of Germans with names like Bùi, Khanh and Mesut - I doubt these are on list of acceptable German names.

A friend trying to register his child with a foreign name here in the Czech Republic was asked to get a letter signed by the British embassy confirming that it was a normal, inoffensive name in English, but once he had that he was fine.


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