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Author Topic:   WTF is wrong with people
frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1 of 457 (707461)
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


Is about half of the world population, mentally retarded or what?

Explaining evolution or global warming or germ theory seems simple as the concepts are simple to grasp. Yet some people just dont seem to be able to grasp such simple concepts. Now i know that by all common measurement i have an above average IQ but i know that these thinks cant be that hard of a human of average intelligence to understand. But yet no matter how diligently you lead them from point A to point B to point C they get lost. But on the other hand they have no problems believing wild and crazy shit like reptilian aliens hijacking our governments, Mayan end of the world scenarios, daemons causing illness, Creationism, wide conspiracies among scientists (in some cases reptilian aliens or daemons pretending to be human scientists) to fraudulently support an untruth and ignore the real truth that hey know.

When i met my first creationist i thought he was a Poe or a satirist, then i thought he was a minor sect member but half of the US believes this bullshit.

Now can someone explain to me how this and worse can be still going on in the 21 century.

How do we stop it, or what can be done about it?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 09-27-2013 12:51 PM frako has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Diomedes, posted 09-27-2013 12:59 PM frako has responded
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 09-27-2013 1:46 PM frako has responded
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 3:25 PM frako has responded
 Message 10 by jar, posted 09-27-2013 4:33 PM frako has responded
 Message 209 by jar, posted 10-04-2013 12:13 PM frako has not yet responded
 Message 260 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-07-2013 12:41 PM frako has not yet responded
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AdminPhat
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Posts: 1781
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 2 of 457 (707463)
09-27-2013 12:46 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the WTF is wrong with people thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9259
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3 of 457 (707464)
09-27-2013 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


You Can Lead A Horse To Water
Frako writes:

Now can someone explain to me how this and worse can be still going on in the 21 century.

Human nature has not really evolved emotionally nearly as much as has our educational awareness evolved logically. People believe what they believe not based so much on logic but through emotional situations such as peer acceptance, confirmation bias, and comfort zones in general. We freely choose what to believe and/or not believe. Some folks wont believe anything not backed by evidence...logic, reason, and reality. Other folks have been taught to not trust science in general....they have been taught that humanity is by and large imperfect by nature and thus any type of logic that does not include or give homage to God is suspect.

How do we stop it, or what can be done about it?
You can lead a horse to water but you can't stop him from preferring vodka.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 11:18 AM frako has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 566
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 4 of 457 (707467)
09-27-2013 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


Explaining evolution or global warming or germ theory seems simple as the concepts are simple to grasp

To be honest, I don't believe the concepts themselves are the problem. I think it is the rampant denial permeating in our society that is the true root cause. Coupled with a great deal of mis-information put forth by individuals who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

I am pretty certain the Koch Brothers have no illusions about the true nature of Global Warming. But nonetheless, their business would be threatened if the environmental folks got traction with their ideas. Additionally, numerous individuals, including working middle class have jobs associated with various energy sector jobs and their livelihood is at stake.

I will say that the denial of evolution however is beyond idiotic. The agenda there is strictly religious in nature (as we all know) and acceptance of the theory would have no impact on our economy as a whole. Except for maybe a few scam artists like Eric Hovind or Ken Ham going out of business. No loss there.


"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 11:18 AM frako has responded

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nwr
Member
Posts: 5504
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 5 of 457 (707479)
09-27-2013 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


Yet some people just dont seem to be able to grasp such simple concepts.

Grasping the concepts is simple enough.

The problem here is with people who refuse to grasp the concepts, because they find it threatening to their religion or to their income.

... but half of the US believes this bullshit.

I don't think that's true. What probably is true, is that half of the US are unwilling to take a stand against such nonsense.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 11:18 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 6:51 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
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Posts: 23968
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 6 of 457 (707486)
09-27-2013 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


so much for smarts
Explaining evolution or global warming or germ theory seems simple as the concepts are simple to grasp. Yet some people just dont seem to be able to grasp such simple concepts. Now i know that by all common measurement i have an above average IQ but i know that these thinks cant be that hard of a human of average intelligence to understand. But yet no matter how diligently you lead them from point A to point B to point C they get lost.

Um, just marveling here at your amazing confidence in what YOU believe, such hubris, such adamantine conviction you bring to sitting in judgment on your fellow human beings based only on your own opinions as grasped only by your own fallible intellect. Do "they" really in fact "get lost" or what does this mean anyway? [Do you have some examples of this "they" by the way or are we just required to believe you that a whole bunch of "they's" do in fact "get lost" whatever that means?]

But on the other hand they have no problems believing wild and crazy shit like reptilian aliens hijacking our governments, Mayan end of the world scenarios, daemons causing illness, Creationism, wide conspiracies among scientists (in some cases reptilian aliens or daemons pretending to be human scientists) to fraudulently support an untruth and ignore the real truth that hey know.

Sure, most of that is probably erroneous, but then so is evolution to many who really DO think it through, probably a lot of the thinking behind global warming too for that matter [but give us a break here, who doesn't believe germ theory? A tribelet of oh five or six hundred hiding out in the Himalayas or what?]

Again your hubris is breathtaking. You call opinion "truth" and want to do away with the opinions of those who disagree with you. Remarkable. In fact this attitude is far more remarkable in the 21st century than the ideas that vex you so. Versions of which are held by far less than half the world's population, you know, you really shouldn't sling around such statistical claims like that.

But let me suggest one thing: some human beings have had direct experience of supernatural things. Clearly you have not or you've simply rationalized it away if you have. Such experiences, being denied by the official establishment POV which you represent, lead people into all sorts of untenable possibilities or interpretations. Nevertheless the experiences are very real and those who have them rightly ignore the flimsy rationalistic type thought you represent. Ignore it with eyerolls and shrugs and go about their business of trying to figure it all out without your help.

Now apart from that we do have the Bible which some of us believe IS the word of the Creator God, and we believe it for good evidenced reasons, many of which have been presented here though we understand it's all over your head so we don't expect you to know what we're talking about. It's the key to the supernatural world for those who "get it" though.

When i met my first creationist i thought he was a Poe or a satirist, then i thought he was a minor sect member but half of the US believes this bullshit.

"Half"? WHICH "bullshit?" Slingin around those made up statistics again. Some representative of evidenced rationality you are.

Now can someone explain to me how this and worse can be still going on in the 21 century.

I hope I've made a credible stab at that explanation above.

How do we stop it, or what can be done about it?

Well I guess you could get yourself elected a secular Pope of sorts and inaugurate an Inquisition against all those who disagree with you. Unfortunately I suspect you could find quite a few followers.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 11:18 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2013 3:41 PM Faith has responded
 Message 13 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 6:36 PM Faith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11174
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 7 of 457 (707487)
09-27-2013 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
09-27-2013 3:25 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Again your hubris is breathtaking. You call opinion "truth" and want to do away with the opinions of those who disagree with you.

So do you: when I disagreed with your own personal beliefs about things in the Bible then you told me that I wasn't really a Christian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 3:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 3:48 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 23968
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 8 of 457 (707488)
09-27-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
09-27-2013 3:41 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Um, concluding that someone is not really a Christian is not trying to do away with his opinions. You can have your opinions and not be a Christian. Speaking of smarts, let's have a little logic here huh?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2013 3:41 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2013 3:53 PM Faith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11174
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 9 of 457 (707489)
09-27-2013 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
09-27-2013 3:48 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Um, concluding that someone is not really a Christian is not trying to do away with his opinions.

Sure it is. You can't handle a Christian's opinion that is at odds with yours, so you just conclude that they must not be a Christian. Viola, opinion gone!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 3:48 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 4:49 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28427
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 10 of 457 (707492)
09-27-2013 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by frako
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


You tolerate and pity them and continue to try to help them.
Yes Virginia, such people exist and all you can do for them is treat them kindly, try to protect them, have pity on them and never stop trying to educate them.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by frako, posted 09-27-2013 11:18 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 23968
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 457 (707495)
09-27-2013 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
09-27-2013 3:53 PM


Re: so much for smarts
I judge an opinion to be genuinely Christian or not by the standard of the Bible, CS, an OBJECTIVE standard, not my own independent opinion, and certainly not anything to do with what I can or cannot "handle." I don't remember what you are referring to but I'm sure that's how I arrived at whatever I said because that's my rule.

However, this is another subject altogether, the usual sort of sidetrack that occurs here. Frako wants to know how to get rid of all those unwelcome opinions he identified as belonging to half the human race. If simply objecting to them on the basis of some objective standard or other would do it for him then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Your opinions haven't gone away have they? Of course not. But maybe a secular Pope could do away with them as I suggested to Frako.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2013 3:53 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-27-2013 5:07 PM Faith has responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11174
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 12 of 457 (707498)
09-27-2013 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
09-27-2013 4:49 PM


Re: so much for smarts
judge an opinion to be genuinely Christian or not by the standard of the Bible, CS, an OBJECTIVE standard, not my own independent opinion, and certainly not anything to do with what I can or cannot "handle."

Nope. Its your own personal opinion and interpretation of the Bible and yes, its because you can't handle the fact that there are Christians who know that YEC is totally insane.

However, this is another subject altogether, the usual sort of sidetrack that occurs here. Frako wants to know how to get rid of all those unwelcome opinions he identified as belonging to half the human race. If simply objecting to them on the basis of some objective standard or other would do it for him then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Well, if we followed your MO, we could just conclude that those people aren't True Humans.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 4:49 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 7:12 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 13 of 457 (707506)
09-27-2013 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
09-27-2013 3:25 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Um, just marveling here at your amazing confidence in what YOU believe, such hubris, such adamantine conviction you bring to sitting in judgment on your fellow human beings based only on your own opinions as grasped only by your own fallible intellect.

Um yea i got data, evidence and the scientific community on my side you have a translation of a translation of a translation of a ... of a bronze age book.


Do "they" really in fact "get lost" or what does this mean anyway? [Do you have some examples of this "they" by the way or are we just required to believe you that a whole bunch of "they's" do in fact "get lost" whatever that means?]

HMM ok you have been here for a while can you in your own words explain what the theory of evolution is.

Sure, most of that is probably erroneous, but then so is evolution to many who really DO think it through, probably a lot of the thinking behind global warming too for that matter [but give us a break here, who doesn't believe germ theory? A tribelet of oh five or six hundred hiding out in the Himalayas or what?]

Naw a bit closer than that like say Weston, Wisconsin
http://content.time.com/...on/article/0,8599,1877352,00.html

Again your hubris is breathtaking. You call opinion "truth" and want to do away with the opinions of those who disagree with you. Remarkable. In fact this attitude is far more remarkable in the 21st century than the ideas that vex you so. Versions of which are held by far less than half the world's population, you know, you really shouldn't sling around such statistical claims like that.

I have no problem with reasonable opinions like say if someone where to say god helped evolution along sure why not if your god is chance and its not hurting anyone. But when opinnions like humans cant cause climate change because god controlls the weather make in to the public forum and ifnluance public policy then i am pissed off our children will suffer because some cant come to terms with reality and rather believe in their magic sky daddy.

But let me suggest one thing: some human beings have had direct experience of supernatural things. Clearly you have not or you've simply rationalized it away if you have. Such experiences, being denied by the official establishment POV which you represent, lead people into all sorts of untenable possibilities or interpretations. Nevertheless the experiences are very real and those who have them rightly ignore the flimsy rationalistic type thought you represent. Ignore it with eyerolls and shrugs and go about their business of trying to figure it all out without your help.

There are 1001 rational explanations for those "supernatural"
experiences im currently waiting on the results of an experiment that tests the people who had outer body experiences while in surgery. The experiment is simple they just put some pictures on the top of the shelves in the OR rooms and are asking people who claim those experiences if they saw them, and what where they. What do you think the result will be?

Now apart from that we do have the Bible which some of us believe IS the word of the Creator God, and we believe it for good evidenced reasons, many of which have been presented here though we understand it's all over your head so we don't expect you to know what we're talking about. It's the key to the supernatural world for those who "get it" though.

Yea can you take a ruler to your god and mesure how long his d... um hair is ? Or any other measuring device that is OBJECTIVE to get any kind of data. Or do i have to not eat for 5 days, have a pint of wine with a drop of LSD in it and stand in a powerful EM field to experience your god.

Half"? WHICH "bullshit?" Slingin around those made up statistics again. Some representative of evidenced rationality you are.

Creationism 46% of americans.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-creationism_n_1571127.html

Well I guess you could get yourself elected a secular Pope of sorts and inaugurate an Inquisition against all those who disagree with you. Unfortunately I suspect you could find quite a few followers.

Naw id just round you up and put you in Education camps with a big sign on the exit GOD CANNOT SET YOU FREE LOL

I have no idea what to do but you people are starting to put humanity as a whole at risk global warming denyers are putting our whole race at risk, evolution deniers are putting our education and medical progress at risk...

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 3:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 7:34 PM frako has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 14 of 457 (707508)
09-27-2013 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Diomedes
09-27-2013 12:59 PM


To be honest, I don't believe the concepts themselves are the problem. I think it is the rampant denial permeating in our society that is the true root cause. Coupled with a great deal of mis-information put forth by individuals who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Probably true, and sad.

I am pretty certain the Koch Brothers have no illusions about the true nature of Global Warming. But nonetheless, their business would be threatened if the environmental folks got traction with their ideas. Additionally, numerous individuals, including working middle class have jobs associated with various energy sector jobs and their livelihood is at stake.

Yea well in the case of Global Warming the livelyhood of the entire population of Earth is at stake.


I will say that the denial of evolution however is beyond idiotic. The agenda there is strictly religious in nature (as we all know) and acceptance of the theory would have no impact on our economy as a whole. Except for maybe a few scam artists like Eric Hovind or Ken Ham going out of business. No loss there.

Yea but how can that be possible when we have a rational brain. Do some people lack this ability or do they ave some genetic programming that makes them follow what the alpha male says no matter what reason says. If Eric Hovind said the earth is flat it has 4 corners, and a dome above it anyone who says otherwise is a lier or a daemon from hell including all of NASA. How many would believe him?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Diomedes, posted 09-27-2013 12:59 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 15 of 457 (707509)
09-27-2013 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
09-27-2013 1:46 PM



I don't think that's true. What probably is true, is that half of the US are unwilling to take a stand against such nonsense.

Um sure...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-creationism_n_1571127.html


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 09-27-2013 1:46 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

    
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