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Author Topic:   How Evolution changed humans’ appearance
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 1 of 45 (710266)
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


Theme: How evolution improved human beauty!

In our society we not only see beauty or attractiveness in the bodies of other people, but we mentally grade it and in some cases measure it in the form of beauty competitions for females and body development competitions for men amongst other competitions centred around appearance of our bodies. An outstanding competition for females is the “Miss World” competition for beautiful women from around the world. The winner of a Miss World competition must be considered near the pinnacle of female beauty.

If we could determine the genealogical lineage of Miss World, we would see that lineage going back generation by generation without a break back to a single living cell, but for our purposes here, consider the line back near to the start of our species, say some 200,000 years ago. The line would be through a female at every generation, some tens of thousands of generations. Let’s choose a random generation at about the 200,000 year mark and give the female mother of that generation the title MotherOne. We can call her partner in producing a daughter for the next generation, FatherOne.

My limited research does not allow me to conjecture up images of MotherOne and FatherOne of that generation, but I would guess that in appearance they would be closer to other Great Apes than to Miss World. So what happens during the succeeding generations that changes the images of the women to finally arrive at Miss World.

The daughter of MotherOne and FatherOne inherits physical characteristics from both parents through Chromosomes X and Y and introducing FatherOne into the line could make significant changes to the child’s appearance, but they need not improve her appearance or beauty level. But there is the possibility of another factor being introduced into the biology of the child, and that is the introduction of a hereditary mutation. The probabilities of a mutation effecting an improvement in the appearance of the child may be very low, but as it can occur at every generation, in tens of thousand of generations the probabilities improve.

As the generations from MotherOne unfold, changes in the appearance of the progeny are affected by the factors mentioned above, but is there another factor that may have a greater effect on the appearance of Miss World’s female ancestors? At each generation Motherx will have a Fatherx from the local male population. In many of those generations Motherx will have a choice for Fatherx and may well choose according to the “beauty” level of available and suitable adult males in the local population. This introduces a bias in favour of increased beauty in many succeeding generations, culminating in Miss World.

If we accept that in Miss World’s earlier generations humans recognised beauty levels in each other, then the above hypothesis may be reasonable, with mate selection being a strong driving force. I wonder if recent scientific research throws any light on the hypothesis.

WJK in Adelaide, South Australia.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-04-2013 9:53 AM WJK has responded
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 11-04-2013 10:18 AM WJK has responded
 Message 5 by nwr, posted 11-04-2013 3:10 PM WJK has responded
 Message 6 by bluegenes, posted 11-04-2013 4:08 PM WJK has responded
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 11-04-2013 4:10 PM WJK has responded
 Message 43 by RAZD, posted 11-08-2013 5:07 PM WJK has responded

    
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Message 2 of 45 (710268)
11-04-2013 8:56 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the How Evolution changed humans’ appearance thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15948
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 3 of 45 (710278)
11-04-2013 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by WJK
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


I don't know why you emphasize females choosing attractive males, rather than vice versa. After all, this is clearly one of the things that males do.

More thoughts later.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by WJK, posted 11-03-2013 12:59 AM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 7:20 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2701
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 4 of 45 (710281)
11-04-2013 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by WJK
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


It is shown in human mate selection that factors humans find attractive are symmetry, outward cues of good health, physical attributes of reproductive success.

Humans have overtime changed many of their criteria for physical beauty, but the constant seems to be the above traits.

If one accepts the theory of evolution and random mutation then it would stand that overtime the traits that proved advantagous would be passed on generation to generation. However I do not feel the physical beauty of a person was all that important.
Otherwise how does one explain so many unattractive people finding mates to procreate with?


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by WJK, posted 11-03-2013 12:59 AM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5530
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 5 of 45 (710322)
11-04-2013 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by WJK
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


How evolution improved human beauty!

How do you distinguish "we evolved to be more beautiful" from "our sense of beauty evolved to be better accepting of the way we are"?

Edited by nwr, : No reason given.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by WJK, posted 11-03-2013 12:59 AM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 7:43 PM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
bluegenes
Member
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 6 of 45 (710327)
11-04-2013 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by WJK
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


WJK writes:

My limited research does not allow me to conjecture up images of MotherOne and FatherOne of that generation, but I would guess that in appearance they would be closer to other Great Apes than to Miss World.

A rather strange guess, to put it mildly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by WJK, posted 11-03-2013 12:59 AM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 7:53 PM bluegenes has responded

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 45 (710328)
11-04-2013 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by WJK
11-03-2013 12:59 AM


If we accept that in Miss World’s earlier generations humans recognised beauty levels in each other, then the above hypothesis may be reasonable, with mate selection being a strong driving force. I wonder if recent scientific research throws any light on the hypothesis.

Check out this.


Love your enemies!

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 Message 1 by WJK, posted 11-03-2013 12:59 AM WJK has responded

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WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 8 of 45 (710349)
11-04-2013 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
11-04-2013 9:53 AM


My emphasis was on Motherx. If her daughter was to gain improved appearance perhaps her best chance would be for Motherx to choose an attractive mate. If Fatherx does the choosing I didn't think there was much chance of the daughter's appearance improving.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-04-2013 9:53 AM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 11-04-2013 7:53 PM WJK has responded
 Message 15 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-04-2013 8:11 PM WJK has responded

    
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 9 of 45 (710351)
11-04-2013 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by 1.61803
11-04-2013 10:18 AM


Human beauty may not have been very important to Miss World's line through the evolutionary process, but it appears to have happened and I find it interesting to conjecture the mechanism at work that effected the change. I'm only considering this one case - there are obviously multitudes of procreations that produce beauty levels like mine!!!!!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by 1.61803, posted 11-04-2013 10:18 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

    
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 10 of 45 (710352)
11-04-2013 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
11-04-2013 3:10 PM


If you don't believe that homo sapiens as a species started some 200,000 years ago then my whole argument is worthless to you.
This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 45 (710355)
11-04-2013 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by WJK
11-04-2013 7:20 PM


If Fatherx does the choosing I didn't think there was much chance of the daughter's appearance improving.

I think that is an incredibly silly thing to think. I'm sure some things like bone structure and symmetry can be inherited from either the paternal or maternal lineage. For example, my daughter looks a lot more like my mother than she looks like my wife's mother.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 7:20 PM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 8:06 PM NoNukes has responded

  
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 12 of 45 (710356)
11-04-2013 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by bluegenes
11-04-2013 4:08 PM


I'm sure you would agree that our logic allows us to examine information about a topic and accept or reject aspects as acceptable or not.
Anatomists and other human scientists have published a wealth of data about human evolution, including some theoretical images of early humans. Of course, you and I know that these images are unproven, but over a lifetime we learn to accept what is reasonable and reject what is not. You might reject, I do not!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by bluegenes, posted 11-04-2013 4:08 PM bluegenes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by bluegenes, posted 11-05-2013 3:05 AM WJK has responded

    
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 13 of 45 (710357)
11-04-2013 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Jon
11-04-2013 4:10 PM


Thanks for the Wikipedia reference. I think it is essential to understand 'sexual selection'.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Jon, posted 11-04-2013 4:10 PM Jon has not yet responded

    
WJK
Junior Member (Idle past 1221 days)
Posts: 22
Joined: 10-31-2013


Message 14 of 45 (710359)
11-04-2013 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
11-04-2013 7:53 PM


I get the impression that your thoughts are dealing with present-day people.
My interest is in the 200,000-year period and tens of thousands of generations from an image I have of early homo sapiens to the present. Such marked differences and so long to make them.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 11-04-2013 7:53 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15948
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 15 of 45 (710360)
11-04-2013 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by WJK
11-04-2013 7:20 PM


My emphasis was on Motherx. If her daughter was to gain improved appearance perhaps her best chance would be for Motherx to choose an attractive mate. If Fatherx does the choosing I didn't think there was much chance of the daughter's appearance improving.

Why not?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 7:20 PM WJK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by WJK, posted 11-04-2013 8:50 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
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