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Author | Topic: why does baking soda and vinegar unclog the drain? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
We've been using this method to unclog the drain for years. Why does it work?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
That website you linked to is like everything else I've found on google. It just tells you it works with no explanation. I wanna know why it works, not if it works.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Oh, Taz, I could tease you unmercifully for days on end, comment endlessly on your intellect, attention to detail and comprehension. But, it is the Christmas Season and I feel in a present giving mood.
From the site cited:
quote: Please do me the kindness of remembering this
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Taq Member Posts: 9970 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
It just tells you it works with no explanation. I wanna know why it works, not if it works. Bicarbonates and carbonates saponify oils which is a fancy way of saying that they turn oils into soaps. That would seem to be one of the secrets. This is why it can break down soap scum. Part of the insoluble part of soap scum is body oils. When the bicarbonate hits that body oil it turns it into soap which is soluble in water, especially in alkaline solutions such as sodium bicarbonate.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
I seriously doubt that sodium bicarb would have any real affect of solidified fat - plus the addition of vinegar, acetic acid, would neutralize it. Sodium Hydroxide (caustic soda) is the usual remedy - it really does create soap in the presence of fat, touch it and you make your own washing up liquid. It also gets hot and liquifies it. The only action I can imagine that bicarb and vinegar has is the expanding gas clearing a blockage that has previously been loosened by the hot water.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Onto my next question.
How the bloody hell do I clear out my kitchen drain air vent? I've snaked my kitchen drain 4 times. It's clear. But it's still sloooowwww. The mainline is ok because water drains just fine from anywhere else. So, it has to be the bloody air vent. Since my house is 3 story high, if you don't hear back from me, assume that I've fallen to my death trying to get the bloody thing from the roof...
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I have a book on general housekeeping that discusses natural cleaning methods and why they work. Baking soda being alkaline can break up grease clogs in drains because grease is acid. For that reason it can also be a useful cleaning agent for lots of situations. Adding vinegar is for producing the reaction that contributes to the dislodging of the clog but the vinegar can also break up other kinds of material in a clog, that part wasn't clear to me, I guess I could go read it again. She also says that baking soda in reaction with the grease will produce soap. You have to do it frequently or repeat it many times if the clog is really bad. Boiling water is of course a big part of the treatment, as it melts grease.
For Taz: There are quite a few sites you can find on Google that describe how to clear your vents. Here's one. You do have to get up on the roof and they do warn that you need to take lots of precautions. It sounds to me like it would probably be worth it to hire someone for the job who is used to working on roofs.
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herebedragons Member (Idle past 857 days) Posts: 1517 From: Michigan Joined: |
I agree with Tangle, bicarbonate is not a strong enough base to react with fats (it will react with free fatty acids, but not intact triglycerides), so it is probably not doing anything to any grease if that is what is slowing the drain. The unclogging action is just the release of CO2 causing expansion and agitation.
A clogged vent usually doesn't cause a drain to run slow, it usually causes gurgling like you would get if you tried to pour water from a jug too fast. So don't risk your life going up on the roof just yet . My guess is that the clog is beyond the reach of your snake. A couple suggestions 1) If you have a clean-out fitting between the kitchen sink and where you know the drains to be clear, try running the snake from there. 2) Use a commercial drain cleaner. Allow the pipes to sit long enough to allow the water to run out of the system (overnight maybe) and pour in the recommended amount of drain cleaner and run enough hot water to get the drain cleaner to the clog. You may need to repeat this once or twice. 3) Use a plunger on the sink drain, working it in and out to try and dislodge the clog. Of course, be very careful if there is any drain cleaner in pipes. If this does't work, you probably should call a plumber. Once it is unclogged, I would recommend a couple things. First, if you have a garbage disposal, try to minimize the amount of food you put down the drain. Compost instead. Those food particles can get stuck in the drain and cause build up - much like what happens in your arteries. Second, use an enzymatic cleaner a couple times a year. These products use enzymes and/or microbes that break down greasy sludge build up in your pipes and helps keep them clean. Hope this helps, I've been there before. My wife used to go crazy with the garbage disposal, putting EVERYTHING down it. She would clog it every 6 months or so. The last time it took 3 days to unclog it, using the methods above. HBDWhoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
herebedragons writes:
I have a clean-out plug in the basement, directly below the kitchen sink. From there, the drain seems to wander around under the basement floor until it finds the main drain. (It probably vetures under your house too at some point.) Snaking from there sometimes reaches clogs. If you have a clean-out fitting between the kitchen sink and where you know the drains to be clear, try running the snake from there. Like some others here, I'm skeptical about mild chemicals attacking ferocious clogs. The "explanation" that I would offer is that IF it works it's because of a combination of three factors: reaction of acid with whatever acid reacts with, reaction of bicarbonate with whatever bicarbonate reacts with, and mechanical action provided by carbon-dioxide pressure.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Well, I misremembered what the book I mentioned actually said. Par for me lately. But anyway there are two situations being addressed and different levels of the problem in each case too. For just keeping clogs from forming plain baking soda is recommended once a week. Dumping half a cup of it into the drain and letting warm water drip into it so as not to wash it down but get it to work on whatever grease might already be there. A stronger treatment would be sodium carbonate rather than bicarbonate, or "washing soda" same basic treatment.
It's clogs where you use both soda and vinegar because you need the reaction to break it up. Two or three treatments may be necessary and if it's a really bad clog you'll have to resort to something stronger. Nevertheless the principle that the alkaline soda breaks up the acid grease is still the explanation for how it works. And I'm relying on my memory again so may have to do more reading later.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Of course prevention is the best cure. For just keeping clogs from forming plain baking soda is recommended once a week. Saving water can cost you in the long run. Just putting a little more water down the drain every time you use it can help a lot. We had a clog at work last week and I couldn't get the strainer off but a good squirt from the hose was all it needed to clear it.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Faith writes: And I'm relying on my memory again so may have to do more reading later. No need to rely on memory or do more reading. Dump your bicarb on a quarter pound of lard and see what happens.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Ok, guys, I had a professional come look at my system. He confirmed a few things:
(1) It's definitely not the air vent. My air vent is fine. (2) I have a unique kind of clog. He called it organic clog. It's like a membrane. A snake will go right through and everything seems fine. But as soon as you pull the snake out, the membrane closes itself back up. He told me the only thing I can do is keep pouring strong acid down there until all of it is dissolved. And he didn't even charge me a cent. Looks like I'll be pouring acid down there for the rest of the day.
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Taq Member Posts: 9970 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6 |
I seriously doubt that sodium bicarb would have any real affect of solidified fat - plus the addition of vinegar, acetic acid, would neutralize it. It isn't solidified. It is liquid body oil in an amalgam of soap waxes and deposited minerals. Bicarb does saponify oils, just like any base will. Lye will just do the job faster because it is a stronger base. In fact, I would suspect that most drain uncloggers are made with strong bases such as sodium hydroxide. You will notice that the method for unclogging drains with sodium bicarb is to use boiling hot water and sodium bicarb for 15 minutes, THEN add the vinegar. The heat will speed up the saponification reaction. The bubbling from the vinegar will help to break off the already loosened deposits in the pipe.
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