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Author Topic:   Happy Holidays and rectal-infusions . . .
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 1 of 10 (745517)
12-23-2014 3:40 PM


Happy Holidays and rectal-infusions . . .
Rick Steves is an American author and television personality focusing on European travel. I recently read his newspaper article which included a small section on tacky European attractions to AVOID, one being torture exhibits. In the article, he mostly wrote disparagingly about visiting such an exhibit:
"The purveyors make lots of money by appealing to the lowest desires of dumbed-down travelers willing to pay $15 to ponder the creative ways in which people have maimed and mutilated others through the ages."
Torture Museums in Europe by Rick Steves
Today, when I re-found/re-read his article on line, it seems Steve added a few tacked-on lines of text. (Perhaps subsequent readers urged him to re-think his stance). So somewhat contradictorily, he apparently now believes the public, dumb as they are, might actually come away from visiting one of the museums with a deeper insight into becoming more civilized. Or something like that.
I went to a torture exhibit in Italy last year. For the measly five percent of visitors who actually read the signage, I felt the museum did try to offer a lesson: It is very likely that whatever country you are from, your country likely tortures today too. It will only stop through the collective will of the masses, . . . but it starts with the individual.
I thought that was good.
Well, america just released its torture report (all 10% of it. How courageous for the elites to share so much with the 99%!). So in addition to freezing to death, waterboarding, hooded beatings, sleep deprivation up to 180 hours, I now have come to learn the term "rectal infusion." Wonderful.
Sooo, if possible, I am more repulsed of my country than before. Yet, it seems 50-60% of americans agree with Dick Chaney: america should do anything to keep itself safe. And they mean ANYTHING!!!
Majority of Americans say CIA tactics detailed in Senate's 'torture' report were justified
My question is: can torture exhibits civilize the majority of people with Dick Chaney's barbaric mindset? Or would torture exhibits back-fire in their humanity mission, . . . would the majority of americans who approve of torture quite enjoy visiting the exhibits and look for america to come up with new forms of enhanced interrogation, like the holiday warming "rectal-infusion"?
After two years of serving on the Grand Federal Jury, I've come to believe americans are not capable of any personal enlightenment. Ever.
Thoughts?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 12-23-2014 4:41 PM dronestar has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (745519)
12-23-2014 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by dronestar
12-23-2014 3:40 PM


The first and only priority a government has is to the health, safety, and general well-being of its citizenrythe people who elect the officials and finance the institutions.
A government that fails to do what is necessary to meet that goal is, in my opinion, a worthless leech, sucking off my income and providing me not even the one thing in return they should be able to provide me.
would the majority of americans who approve of torture quite enjoy visiting the exhibits and look for america to come up with new forms of enhanced interrogation, like the holiday warming "rectal-infusion"?
I could care less about looking at torture devices. I'd check them out if I were in the museum already, but I'd never make a special trip.
And how is rectal infusion related to Christmas? I'm pretty sure Jesus was a vaginal birth.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by dronestar, posted 12-23-2014 3:40 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by dronestar, posted 12-23-2014 4:56 PM Jon has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(2)
Message 3 of 10 (745520)
12-23-2014 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Jon
12-23-2014 4:41 PM


Thanks for the reply Jon, being in the holiday season, I didn't think I'd get too many posts with this topic.
Jon writes:
The first and only priority a government has is to the health, safety, and general well-being of its citizenry
Torturing people causes people around the world to hate us, and to motivate to harm us. Torture creates more enemies than it prevents. Thus, the american government is decreasing your friend's and family's safety to terrorism. Don't you like your friends and family?
Jon writes:
And how is rectal infusion related to Christmas? I'm pretty sure Jesus was a vaginal birth.
You'd make a great straight-man Jon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Jon, posted 12-23-2014 4:41 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 12-23-2014 5:49 PM dronestar has replied
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 12-24-2014 10:58 AM dronestar has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 10 (745524)
12-23-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by dronestar
12-23-2014 4:56 PM


Torturing people causes people around the world to hate us, and to motivate to harm us. Torture creates more enemies than it prevents. Thus, the american government is decreasing your friend's and family's safety to terrorism. Don't you like your friends and family?
Evidence?
Making more enemies doesn't necessarily mean I am less safe, especially if making enemies involves imprisoning other enemies and (eventually) the newly-created ones.
I'd rather a whole bunch of people hate me but not be able to kill me, than most people liking me but some being able to kill me.
You wouldn't?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by dronestar, posted 12-23-2014 4:56 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by dronestar, posted 12-24-2014 9:21 AM Jon has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 5 of 10 (745554)
12-24-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Jon
12-23-2014 5:49 PM


Jon writes:
Evidence?
Tell ya what Jon, you take a walking tour through the middle east wearing a "usa is number one" back-pack, and have your family tell me where your body is buried.
Honestly, a simple test of empathy should be sufficient: if someone tortured your family or friends, wouldn't you want justice/revenge? Why would you imagine it different for other people? Also, keep in mind, the Torture Report stated 25% turned out to be innocent. But if you still feel torturing innocent women and children is what you need to feel secure, then surely baby-jesus must be crying.
Jon writes:
I'd rather a whole bunch of people hate me but not be able to kill me, than most people liking me but some being able to kill me. You wouldn't?
Sooo, what you are saying is, if you can't get 100% of the world's 7 billion people to like you, then you need to torture or kill every one of them to ensure your safety. Well, that seems very christian to me, . . . merry xmas Jon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Jon, posted 12-23-2014 5:49 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 12-24-2014 10:03 AM dronestar has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 10 (745555)
12-24-2014 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by dronestar
12-24-2014 9:21 AM


Tell ya what Jon, you take a walking tour through the middle east wearing a "usa is number one" back-pack, and have your family tell me where your body is buried.
Why? Why would I go to the Middle East?
I expect my government to use my tax dollars to keep me safe in my bed. I don't expect my government to protect me if I decide to do something stupid like go to the Middle East.
Honestly, a simple test of empathy should be sufficient: if someone tortured your family or friends, wouldn't you want justice/revenge? Why would you imagine it different for other people? Also, keep in mind, the Torture Report stated 25% turned out to be innocent. But if you still feel torturing innocent women and children is what you need to feel secure, then surely baby-jesus must be crying.
So you have no evidence, then?
I didn't ask for evidence about empathy. It's not about that. It's a simple matter of pragmatics. The US government has a duty to keep its citizens safe; if they are safer when the government tortures people suspected of wanting to harm us, then they have a duty to torture those people suspected of wanting to harm us.
Sooo, what you are saying is, if you can't get 100% of the world's 7 billion people to like you, then you need to torture or kill every one of them to ensure your safety.
No. I have actually not said that at all.
Well, that seems very christian to me
What does religion have to do with any of this? I don't see how Christmas, the baby Jesus, or being Christian has anything to do with a government's decision to use torture on suspected enemies.
merry xmas Jon.
Merry Christmas to you, too! I think it's going to be a good one this year. It is below freezing, and that might make the roads a little slick, but for now it is just really foggy outside with no snow on the ground. I'll be heading down to the Cities this afternoon and coming back tomorrow night. The forecast earlier in the week predicted temperatures in the teens, but now it looks like we'll be having a low-thirties Christmas with very little snow.
Be safe and enjoy!

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by dronestar, posted 12-24-2014 9:21 AM dronestar has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 7 of 10 (745561)
12-24-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by dronestar
12-23-2014 4:56 PM


dronester writes:
Torturing people causes people around the world to hate us....
We have plenty of other reasons to hate you. If you stopped torturing, it wouldn't make any difference in the amount of hate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by dronestar, posted 12-23-2014 4:56 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by dronestar, posted 12-24-2014 11:09 AM ringo has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 8 of 10 (745564)
12-24-2014 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
12-24-2014 10:58 AM


RingO writes:
We have plenty of other reasons to hate you. If you stopped torturing, it wouldn't make any difference in the amount of hate.
Really, I would think stopping the rectal-infusion of sometimes innocent people would go a long way towards winning the respect of people around the world.
In the following recent poll, it doesn't specifically say why america is so hated.
In Gallup Poll, The Biggest Threat To World Peace Is ... America?
In Gallup Poll, The Biggest Threat To World Peace Is ... America?
So Ringo, could you give me your top three reasons why america is hated? As an outsider, your list may be much different from a person who sees and experiences things too close.
Rectal-infusion too-close.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 12-24-2014 10:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 12-24-2014 11:11 AM dronestar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 9 of 10 (745566)
12-24-2014 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by dronestar
12-24-2014 11:09 AM


Ringo writes:
So Ringo, could you give me your top three reasons why america is hated?
Off the top of my head, in no particular order, the Air Force, the Marine Corps and the CIA?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by dronestar, posted 12-24-2014 11:09 AM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by dronestar, posted 12-24-2014 11:19 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 10 of 10 (745567)
12-24-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
12-24-2014 11:11 AM


RingO writes:
Off the top of my head, in no particular order, the Air Force, the Marine Corps and the CIA?
Okay, not a bad start.
If it helps, with a million apologies, for my country, I am sorry.
Wishing you'all a Merry Xmas, and worldwide goodwill toward men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 12-24-2014 11:11 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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