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Author Topic:   Net Neutrality --- For Once, Everyone Wins
Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 1 of 44 (751042)
02-26-2015 2:11 PM


I think we can all celebrate.

Coyote, Faith, Catholic Scientist, Percy, are you with me? No matter whether you're left or right, the people who use the internet have won.

FCC approves new net neutrality rules.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Theodoric, posted 02-26-2015 2:27 PM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 35 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-03-2015 2:36 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 40 by RAZD, posted 11-24-2017 9:58 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 2 of 44 (751044)
02-26-2015 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dr Adequate
02-26-2015 2:11 PM


You might get a bunch of right wing conspiracy arguments.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-26-2015 2:11 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 44 (751045)
02-26-2015 2:57 PM


ISPs?
Related question: Why are there ISPs in the first place?

What special role do they play and is it necessary?


Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 02-26-2015 3:38 PM Jon has acknowledged this reply
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5234
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 4 of 44 (751053)
02-26-2015 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
02-26-2015 2:57 PM


Re: ISPs?
Jon writes:

Related question: Why are there ISPs in the first place?
What special role do they play and is it necessary?

They're the customer side if the intertubes. Their biggest role these days is marketing - the real tuby bits are provided by the main network operators. Their problem with network neutrality is that they have to invest in capacity as all the over-the-top content providers like YouTube and NetFlix squirt huge quantities of data at them without having to pay them do it but also get paid directly from the end user themselves.

The ISPs now have to have a think about their business models.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 5 of 44 (751055)
02-26-2015 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
02-26-2015 2:57 PM


Re: ISPs?
They are the business that brings the capability of connecting to the internet to the consumer. Without them everyone would ahve to find their own way to connect to a hub somewhere. They are the backbone of the system.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 02-26-2015 2:57 PM Jon has acknowledged this reply

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 44 (751062)
02-26-2015 4:55 PM


Pay per Ad Internet
Replying to both of you with another question: Why is the cost of Internet access so different from place to place?

Electricity prices are pretty standard wherever you go (as long as the area is developed, etc.), but I paid about $20/mo for Internet in my old city and am paying $65/mo for it where I live now.

Also, how much sense would a pay-for-usage system work with the Internet? My light bill is different every month depending on how much electricity I use. Landline phones work the same way, as well as some cell phones. Why not Internet?

One effect of switching to such a system, as far as I can see, would be a reduction in ads; sites would have to keep down ads if they wanted traffic or else no one would visit their bandwidth-heavy sites and pay for content they don't want.

That might even be a side effect of the new rules, ad-laden sites won't be able to pay the ISPs to give them extra bandwidth, meaning their sites will either be slower and discouraging to visitors or they will cut back on the fancy ads to keep their sites loading quickly.

Alternatively, ISPs might keep upping their capabilities to handle the ads and jack up their prices to everyone, distributing the costs over all their customers instead of only increasing charges on the folks actually causing the trouble.

Edited by Jon, : No reason given.


Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Theodoric, posted 02-26-2015 5:24 PM Jon has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 7 of 44 (751064)
02-26-2015 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
02-26-2015 4:55 PM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
Probably competition. In most places in the US there is effectively no competition. This does two things keeps prices high and keeps companies from upgrading capabilities. I pay for 6mb dsl. That is the highest speed I can get and I only really have on choice, Centurylink. They suck. My only other choice is satellite which is no faster and prohibitively expensive. I live 12 miles outside of Superior, WI so I am not in the deep dark woods. There is an actual fiber optic line 1/2 mile from my house.

20 miles father out in the country, in Maple, WI every home has fiber optic to their house. The local phone company got a grant and took it upon themselves to go to fiber.

This is an example of how our capitalist system fails society. We as a nation .are the laughingstock of the world for our pitiful internet and cell service.

Landline phones do not work the same way. There is a flat fee now for most phone service. I get local and long distance and no matter how many calls I make it is the same. International calls would be an additional cost.

The ISP's and the big players are not suffering financially. They want to be able to provide mediocre service and find another way to generate additional revenue. Why is no other country experiencing these issues? The issues is the big players do not want to spend more money in improving service but want to find new ways to charge fees.

Read up on the economics of the internet and cell service in the USA, compared to the rest of the world. Ever place in the world I have traveled has better service and lower prices.

Why do you think the big telecoms wanted to make municipal internet systems illegal? They do not want competition.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 02-26-2015 4:55 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 44 (751067)
02-26-2015 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Theodoric
02-26-2015 5:24 PM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
Probably competition.

Maybe. But what about power companies? Water? These local monopolies have relatively stable prices.

I pay for 6mb dsl. That is the highest speed I can get and I only really have on choice, Centurylink.

I'd be interested to know how much you pay. I was getting (I think) 12 Mb DSL from CenturyLink at $20/mo. That was an introductory price. I think it is usually about $40/mo for that service, though I have found their 4Mb speed to be sufficient for everything I do; I only upgraded because the introductory price made the 12 and 4 the same price.

But in my old city competition was fiercer than it is here. Century Link is very expensive where I live now, being about the same as the cable company's Internet.

They want to be able to provide mediocre service and find another way to generate additional revenue. Why is no other country experiencing these issues? The issues is the big players do not want to spend more money in improving service but want to find new ways to charge fees.

I can agree with that. The service we have now is junk compared to our old service. The television service is even worse than the over-the-air service my parents use. But the only alternative is satellite; because the cable company packages the TV for less than free with the Internet, there are no over-the-air channels in my area.

I've investigated the price difference. I could save about $20/mo if I lived two counties over, where there is a competing cable company/ISP. It's more than clear to me that the lack of competition leads my ISP to rape me jus' 'cause it can.

It will be interesting (and pleasant) if the net neutrality rules have any impact on quality and price of service. I fear they won't, though. ISPs will use them like employers use the AACas an excuse to jack up prices and downgrade service.

They will screw over America, blame the government, turn more people into idiot Reduncelicans, and make a dandy profit from it all.

God. Bless. America.

Jon


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5544
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 9 of 44 (751069)
02-26-2015 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Theodoric
02-26-2015 2:27 PM


You might get a bunch of right wing conspiracy arguments.

Yes, the political right wins too. They now have a whole new source of arguments for their bogus rants.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11840
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 10 of 44 (751071)
02-26-2015 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-26-2015 7:08 PM


Re: Pay per Ad Internet
Maybe. But what about power companies? Water? These local monopolies have relatively stable prices.

Aren't those co-ops and not for profit?

I don't think there's anything stopping you from getting together and getting internet service like that. It would just be a huge pain in the ass.

I'd be interested to know how much you pay. I was getting (I think) 12 Mb DSL from CenturyLink at $20/mo. That was an introductory price. I think it is usually about $40/mo for that service, though I have found their 4Mb speed to be sufficient for everything I do; I only upgraded because the introductory price made the 12 and 4 the same price.

I'm on the Max Plus plan - 18 Mbps for $44.95, but it ends up coming out to ~$60 after taxes and fees n'shit.

But that's all I buy from them. I used to have a bundle with cable tv and was spending twice what I do now.

But in my old city competition was fiercer than it is here. Century Link is very expensive where I live now, being about the same as the cable company's Internet.

When the monopoly stops being cooperative and starts looking for profit is when your price goes up.

They've got me by the balls because they own all the lines/hardware.

But you've got to give them some credit, in the beginning they spend a lot on the hardware install without getting much money out of it. After things get going is when you recoup the investment - so I kinda get it. But the completely terrible customer service and the obviously inflated prices really get to me.

It be great to tell them to fuck off and go find my own shit, but they've got me by the balls.

It will be interesting (and pleasant) if the net neutrality rules have any impact on quality and price of service. I fear they won't, though.

Net neutrality is going to stop it from getting worse (not make it better). Without it, they could just not allow me to get, say, Netflix through their internet and then I'd have to go back to cable TV for that shit.

ISPs will use them like employers use the AACas an excuse to jack up prices and downgrade service.

You're gonna have to call shenanigans on them and bitch a fit, then they'll probably lower the price a bit for a while.

They will screw over America, blame the government, turn more people into idiot Reduncelicans, and make a dandy profit from it all.

God. Bless. America.

But here are us Americans here shucking over our dollars to them every month. You think its such a shame but you're enabling it. Like I said, they got us by the balls.

Meh... I think its worth the price; the internet is awesome.

Edited by Cat Sci, : formatting


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19295
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 11 of 44 (751073)
02-26-2015 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jon
02-26-2015 7:08 PM


satellite anywhere internet/phone
http://internet.hughesnet.com/

$49.95/mo

The future of internet has to be satellite (or solar drone dirigibles) replacing cell towers and cables

ALL US service is crap for speed and cost

quote:
Why the U.S. Has Fallen Behind in Internet Speed and Affordability

Downloading a high-definition movie takes about seven seconds in Seoul, Hong Kong, Tokyo, Zurich, Bucharest and Paris, and people pay as little as $30 a month for that connection. In Los Angeles, New York and Washington, downloading the same movie takes 1.4 minutes for people with the fastest Internet available, and they pay $300 a month for the privilege, according to The Cost of Connectivity, a report published Thursday by the New America Foundations Open Technology Institute.

The reason the United States lags many countries in both speed and affordability, according to people who study the issue, has nothing to do with technology. Instead, it is an economic policy problem the lack of competition in the broadband industry.


Then there is community operated internet\broadband

http://www.norwoodma.gov/index.php?option=com_content&vie...

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : added


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 12 of 44 (751075)
02-26-2015 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Theodoric
02-26-2015 2:27 PM


You might get a bunch of right wing conspiracy arguments.

Well, that's a disturbing prospect. You're saying that if this goes through, then conservatives might start believing in conspiracy theories? That would be an alarming and unprecedented development. How will we cope?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Theodoric, posted 02-26-2015 2:27 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15984
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 13 of 44 (751076)
02-26-2015 9:39 PM


... and there we go.


  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.6


Message 14 of 44 (751080)
02-26-2015 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
02-26-2015 8:23 PM


Re: satellite anywhere internet/phone
Satellite Internet is a nonstarter. Where I live it actually maxes at 5mb(i just checked their website). Also, the Fair Access policy will throttle your speeds when you hit the datacap which is either 10 or 20 GB. If you pay them more they will loosen things up. Their token system. Those are not hard to hit when you are using netflix, amazon prime or Hulu.

Satellite will always be a niche player.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2015 8:23 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by RAZD, posted 03-03-2015 2:16 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3044
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 15 of 44 (751094)
02-27-2015 9:09 AM


5G Upgrade
How much will they charge you for this?

New 5G technology can download up to one terabit per second. Equivalent of downloading about 30 movies... in one second.

C'mon upgrades!


    
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