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Author Topic:   Pre-creation Humans
Percy
Member
Posts: 15492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 1 of 13 (773032)
11-23-2015 4:06 PM


Today's New York Times reports that "in a study published Monday in Nature, David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School, and his colleagues analyzed the genomes of 230 people who lived between 8,500 and 2,300 years ago." (Agriculture Linked to DNA Changes in Ancient Europe)

Apparently the researchers had evidence that some of people whose genomes they studied lived before creation.

I wanted to propose a new topic to discuss the evidence that the genomes are older than creation, but the study is behind a paywall.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Omnivorous, posted 11-23-2015 4:37 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 3 by Genomicus, posted 11-23-2015 4:38 PM Percy has responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 319 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 2 of 13 (773033)
11-23-2015 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-23-2015 4:06 PM


Didn't Marvel Comics cover all that in the 60s?

The Inhumans

quote:
[A] race that was evolutionarily advanced when human beings were still in the Stone Age.

There you go. Though I prefer the Middle Ages myth of Lilith, who wouldn't return to Adam in the Garden after she slept with then-archangel Samael outside the Garden.

Well, duh.

Or maybe the pre-Creation folk were giants in the earth?

Great topic! Surely you can hack a paywall?

On the other hand, wait: Professor Girlfriend is visiting for Thanksgiving. Maybe I can use her university library privileges to access it.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-23-2015 4:06 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Genomicus
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Posts: 781
Joined: 02-15-2012
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 3 of 13 (773034)
11-23-2015 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
11-23-2015 4:06 PM


Here you go:

https://www.docdroid.net/MFoY2CQ/nature16152.pdf.html

That link will take you directly to the full PDF version of the paper, which you can then download to your computer.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 11-23-2015 4:06 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by NoNukes, posted 11-23-2015 6:04 PM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5 by Percy, posted 11-23-2015 6:07 PM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9330
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 4 of 13 (773040)
11-23-2015 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Genomicus
11-23-2015 4:38 PM


Thanks for the link.

The paper does not seem to spend much time on the evidence for dating. Might require some digging into the articles references to get this discussion started.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Genomicus, posted 11-23-2015 4:38 PM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15492
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 5 of 13 (773041)
11-23-2015 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Genomicus
11-23-2015 4:38 PM


Thanks.

After I read the paper if it still seems to make sense to start a discussion thread then I'll propose one over at Proposed New Topics.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Genomicus, posted 11-23-2015 4:38 PM Genomicus has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 11-23-2015 6:19 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Coyote
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Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 6 of 13 (773042)
11-23-2015 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Percy
11-23-2015 6:07 PM


Can I play too?

I don't have dates as early as 8,500 years, but I do have two radiocarbon dates on human bone dating back 7,550 and 7,650 years.

We don't have the DNA evidence in yet, but the samples are currently at a good DNA laboratory being analyzed.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Percy, posted 11-23-2015 6:07 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 11-24-2015 1:57 PM Coyote has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3422
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 7 of 13 (773044)
11-23-2015 9:29 PM


I wanna play, too, but from the other end.

I'm going to grab my bible and count the begats to see if Bishop Ussher missed anything.

Anyone know how long a begat is?


Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Blue Jay, posted 11-24-2015 10:04 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 10 by NoNukes, posted 11-24-2015 1:55 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 49 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 8 of 13 (773069)
11-24-2015 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
11-23-2015 9:29 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

Anyone know how long a begat is?

Forty-two, I think.


-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*

*Yeah, it's real

Darwin loves you.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2015 9:29 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Omnivorous, posted 11-24-2015 11:19 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded
 Message 13 by AZPaul3, posted 11-24-2015 9:54 PM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 319 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 9 of 13 (773078)
11-24-2015 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Blue Jay
11-24-2015 10:04 AM


Blue Jay writes:

AZPaul3 writes:

Anyone know how long a begat is?


Forty-two, I think.

It depends if you're measuring the actual begats or the gaps between generational begats.

I have it on good authority that the average begat is about five minutes.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Blue Jay, posted 11-24-2015 10:04 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9330
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 10 of 13 (773091)
11-24-2015 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by AZPaul3
11-23-2015 9:29 PM


Anyone know how long a begat is?

Isn't that a rather personal question? I know I'm not interested in the details of anyone else's begat times, positions, etc. Well, unless they really want to post them, with some photos?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2015 9:29 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9330
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 11 of 13 (773092)
11-24-2015 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Coyote
11-23-2015 6:19 PM


Got any pointers to where one might find similar stuff? I think Percy's topic could be downright interesting if we can find some info to discuss.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Coyote, posted 11-23-2015 6:19 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 11-24-2015 3:01 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 12 of 13 (773096)
11-24-2015 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
11-24-2015 1:57 PM


In the new world there are not yet a lot of DNA samples on ancient human remains. The few we have are quite interesting.

Here are a couple of links to get started:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ulture-first-americans

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journ...


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 11-24-2015 1:57 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3422
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 13 of 13 (773120)
11-24-2015 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Blue Jay
11-24-2015 10:04 AM


Blue Jay (the spider) writes:

Anyone know how long a begat is?

Forty-two, I think.

I knew that.

Omni writes:

I have it on good authority that the average begat is about five minutes.

Then the Earth is really really young!

NoNukes writes:

I know I'm not interested in the details of anyone else's begat times, positions, etc. Well, unless they really want to post them, with some photos?

Oh, god, not mine. That would be disgusting!

{How disgusting would it be?}

That would be so disgusting they would shut down the internet and throw the routers away!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Blue Jay, posted 11-24-2015 10:04 AM Blue Jay has not yet responded

  
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