Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 108 (8806 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 12-16-2017 6:06 AM
261 online now:
Tangle (1 member, 260 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: jaufre
Post Volume:
Total: 824,305 Year: 28,911/21,208 Month: 977/1,847 Week: 352/475 Day: 15/102 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Reporting debate problems OR discussing moderation actions/inactions


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
1
23Next
Author Topic:   What do you think of the evidence for psychic abilities?
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1026
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 37 (816791)
08-11-2017 12:01 PM


I was a reading a book a while back, and I saw a quote, but never researched it.

It was a quote from the psychology expert Jefferson Fish.

quote:

[There are] Many isolated instances of amazing unexplained individual or shared experiences. There are, of course, alternative possible explanations for all of these events.

As a result, I'm inclined to be skeptical, but don't consider the case closed.


Here is the book I saw this quote in. It was a book by a skeptic.

https://books.google.com/books?id=uX86tBfDqgkC&pg=PT56&lp...

I don't know how much this topic needs to be discussed, but does anybody have any observations?

Have any knowledge of what Dr. Fish might be talking about?

I'm sure Matthew 24 might be able to be made relevant. Or Isaiah and Kings?

Any thoughts?


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 08-12-2017 9:30 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 08-12-2017 1:07 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 15 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-14-2017 2:10 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    
Admin
Director
Posts: 12536
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 2 of 37 (816859)
08-12-2017 8:34 AM


Thread Moved from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10239
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 3 of 37 (816862)
08-12-2017 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-11-2017 12:01 PM


Sike Ick Data
It is my understanding that there is--as yet---no conclusive evidence.

That being said, there are many claims of supernatural manifestations---both in organized religion and in pseudo-spirituality.

I read a good article in Psychology Today...Do Psychic Phenomena Exist?...in which the author ( Steve Taylor Ph.D.)suggests several reasons why he personally thinks such phenomena could exist:

  • Philosophical Reasons.

  • Consciousness.

  • Quantum Physics.

  • Empirical Evidence

  • Personal Experience

    Click on the link for his explanations.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-11-2017 12:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

      
  • jar
    Member
    Posts: 29787
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 1.6


    Message 4 of 37 (816864)
    08-12-2017 10:09 AM


    I have never seen any evidence of any psychic ability period. If there is ever any evidence of psychic ability then I will reconsider.

    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

    Replies to this message:
     Message 9 by Coyote, posted 08-12-2017 2:57 PM jar has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 13982
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 5 of 37 (816871)
    08-12-2017 11:58 AM


    By looking at a man's hat, Sherlock Holmes could tell that the owner was left-handed and lived upstairs in a building without gaslights. That was observation, not psychic ability.

    Charlatans use the same observation skills to pose as psychics. If we all made good use of observation skills, there wouldn't be nearly as much talk about psychic abilities.


      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 5253
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.0


    (1)
    Message 6 of 37 (816872)
    08-12-2017 12:13 PM


    If there was such a thing as psychic ability we'd have known all about it long ago.
    That kind of thing can't hide. On the other hand endless claims of the paranormal have been debunked over centuries.

    Randi offered $1m for anyone that could demonstrate it - all failed.

    The interesting thing is what happens when they fail - they're still convinced they can do it. The dowsers are defeated time and time again, yet still believe they can do it.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by caffeine, posted 08-14-2017 1:36 PM Tangle has not yet responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 26734
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    (1)
    Message 7 of 37 (816874)
    08-12-2017 1:07 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
    08-11-2017 12:01 PM


    maybe sort of
    A few years ago I read a pastor's view of psychic ability as one of the faculties or powers our original parents had, that was lost at the Fall but may still appear in some people sporadically or vaguely, sometimes in Christians since religious experience seems to bring it out. For this reason some pagan religious practices are aimed at developing it. But he says it shouldn't be cultivated because it's deceptive and subject to fraud. Also no doubt easily influenced by Satan, who is the "prince of this world" since the Fall. It would be hard to get evidence of such an unpredictable thing.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

    Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-11-2017 12:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

        
    Porosity
    Member
    Posts: 156
    From: MT, USA
    Joined: 06-15-2013


    (1)
    Message 8 of 37 (816876)
    08-12-2017 1:31 PM


    I think there is plenty of evidence gullible people will believe in all matters of absurdities.
    Pseudoscience, Alien anal probes, ghost, demons, Bigfoot, psychics, zombies, gods, pixies, flat earth and religions. All would fall to the trash heaps of history if they could not generate mountains of cash.
        
    Coyote
    Member
    Posts: 6037
    Joined: 01-12-2008
    Member Rating: 1.6


    (2)
    Message 9 of 37 (816878)
    08-12-2017 2:57 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by jar
    08-12-2017 10:09 AM


    I have never seen any evidence of any psychic ability period. If there is ever any evidence of psychic ability then I will reconsider.

    I knew you were going to post that!

    lol


    Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

    Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

    In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

    It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

    If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

    If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

    "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

    Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by jar, posted 08-12-2017 10:09 AM jar has not yet responded

      
    ProtoTypical
    Member
    Posts: 1761
    From: Ontario Canada
    Joined: 08-04-2010
    Member Rating: 4.3


    (1)
    Message 10 of 37 (816879)
    08-12-2017 3:41 PM


    My brother used to live with my wife and I and our 2 children. He was a genius wrestling with a bipolar disorder and a tendency to be nervous. He had lived with us for about 3 years and was 50 yrs old when he died. At 7 in the morning, about 6 hrs after he died, our mother called me and asked if he was ok. This type of call was completely unprecedented and absolutely out of character for my mother. I went to his room and discovered him there.

    Some time later I asked my mother about it and she said that she had awoke with the overwhelming compulsion to call. I don't know. Its weird.

    So yeah this is anecdotal but wtf?


    Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by Faith, posted 08-12-2017 7:02 PM ProtoTypical has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 26734
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 11 of 37 (816883)
    08-12-2017 7:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by ProtoTypical
    08-12-2017 3:41 PM


    Obviously you're a gullible person trying to get a mountain of cash out of Porosity.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by ProtoTypical, posted 08-12-2017 3:41 PM ProtoTypical has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by ProtoTypical, posted 08-12-2017 9:39 PM Faith has responded

        
    ProtoTypical
    Member
    Posts: 1761
    From: Ontario Canada
    Joined: 08-04-2010
    Member Rating: 4.3


    (2)
    Message 12 of 37 (816884)
    08-12-2017 9:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
    08-12-2017 7:02 PM


    In Porosity's defense there really isn't much reason to believe in the supernatural, From a life time's experience this is about the only event that I can point to that defies explanation. Singular and yet substantial enough to maintain a doubt.

    And so what is more likely? The existence of a supernatural realm or the possibility of a missed explanation.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Faith, posted 08-12-2017 7:02 PM Faith has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by Faith, posted 08-13-2017 12:49 PM ProtoTypical has responded

      
    Faith
    Member
    Posts: 26734
    From: Nevada, USA
    Joined: 10-06-2001
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 13 of 37 (816911)
    08-13-2017 12:49 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by ProtoTypical
    08-12-2017 9:39 PM


    Well I've had so much experience of the supernatural I'm beyond doubting it but I understand the skepticism since the evidence is hard to come by and pretty spotty except for those who've had such personal experiences. But the accusation of making money off them always gets my goat.

    There are lots of supernatural claims that could be discussed but this thread is limited to psychic powers.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by ProtoTypical, posted 08-12-2017 9:39 PM ProtoTypical has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 20 by ProtoTypical, posted 08-14-2017 6:25 PM Faith has responded

        
    caffeine
    Member
    Posts: 1360
    From: Prague, Czech Republic
    Joined: 10-22-2008
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 14 of 37 (816997)
    08-14-2017 1:36 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Tangle
    08-12-2017 12:13 PM


    If there was such a thing as psychic ability we'd have known all about it long ago.
    That kind of thing can't hide.

    This seems a bit of a limited view.

    If we're talking about somebody like Professor X existing in reality, then sure - the reality of his powers could easily be demonstrated experimentally if he chose to. We can safely conclude that people with psychic abilities on the order of X-Men characters do not exist in reality (or are very secretive).

    But this is not at all the sort of thing which people are usually talking about when they claim to believe in psychic abilities. They're talking about things like that implied by Prototypical's story - someone establishing some brief psychic connection with loved ones at the moment of their death, causing the loved one to think of them.

    Now, I don't think that such abilities exist; but they are the kind of thing that would be extraordinarily difficult to demonstrate experimentally. How do you distinguish between a genuinely existing ability of this sort and mere coincidence?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Tangle, posted 08-12-2017 12:13 PM Tangle has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by Diomedes, posted 08-14-2017 2:49 PM caffeine has not yet responded

      
    New Cat's Eye
    Member
    Posts: 11855
    From: near St. Louis
    Joined: 01-27-2005
    Member Rating: 1.5


    Message 15 of 37 (816999)
    08-14-2017 2:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
    08-11-2017 12:01 PM


    Any thoughts?

    I'm just thinking some anecdotal bullshit, but I thought I'd share it.

    I have a cousin that I literally grew up along side. Sometime we wonder if we have a psychic connection, or something.

    Like, we can communicate non-verbally really really well. We don't "finish each other's sentences", but we're always "finishing each other's actions".

    It's really cool when we're working on a project together or one of us is just helping the other. When other friends help me, I always have to do a lot of talking and explaining what we're doing and what I need them to do right now and then up next.

    But with my cousin, we'll spend long periods of time working on things together without saying a word. We just know what the other person needs right now and up next and we're always just staying ahead of each other and on top of things and getting shit done.

    Now, of course since we've literally spent our whole lives together we are going to be picking up on small clues, body language, past behavior trends, and just inferring the next steps from all that.

    But sometimes it is so surreal. It's impressive and awe-inspiring when someone just knows what you're thinking, or you just know what someone else is thinking, and it simply works out in the real world in getting results.

    I think there's more to it than a plain woo-less inference from physical clues, and I believe we do have a psychic connection. But I don't have any evidence, as I said this is just some anecdotal bullshit


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-11-2017 12:01 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 29 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-15-2017 5:38 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

      
    1
    23Next
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2015 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2017