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Author Topic:   Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas
Greatest I am
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Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 86 (817218)
08-15-2017 8:23 PM


Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower classes, I wonder when the lower classes will revolt.

I would like to think, soonest is best, thanks to the left being too far left of the political spectrum, and the right being too far right.

The U. S. needs a third party to draw both overextended wings in and that should be a worker’s party.

If the worst affected by war, the middle and working classes, do not form a third party to represent the wealth creating demography of the country do nothing revolutionary, the dumbing down of the middle has worked quite well and the nation has no heart or love of self.

If the average working man or woman is not to be represented by either Democrats or Republicans, and are too dumbed down to see the requirement to be represented as important, and continue with their antiquated two party system, then you my dear Yankee friends, have devolved into quite a revolting and heartless middle and working classes.

You are even more revolting than the rich C S sons of bitches that don’t care for your welfare at all. The rich do not give any thought to your welfare, even as you enrich them more and more daily. It seems to me that you match their mind set by not giving a thought to your own long term welfare or about what kind of American Nightmare you are giving your children.

Bring the rich to heel or face a nuclear war. It’s your revolting choice.

Regards
DL


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 08-16-2017 7:18 AM Greatest I am has responded
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 4:06 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Adminnemooseus
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Posts: 3825
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 2 of 86 (817220)
08-15-2017 9:49 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Revolting middle class. If the rich keep funding war with the lives of the lower clas thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9739
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 3 of 86 (817254)
08-16-2017 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-15-2017 8:23 PM


Dumbest We Are?
GIA writes:

The U. S. needs a third party to draw both overextended wings in and that should be a worker’s party.

OK, sounds plausible. Have there been any efforts to create such a party? Is it even possible in this day and age to buck the two party system? What would prevent either party from trying to hijack the workers party (if created) over to their side?

If the worst affected by war, the middle and working classes, do not form a third party to represent the wealth creating demography of the country do nothing revolutionary, the dumbing down of the middle has worked quite well and the nation has no heart or love of self.
So are you essentially saying that if we the people don't spark a revolution, we are hopeless sheeple? Lets assume as much. To start with, where do we get the money to back such a party? Next...where are the leaders...the spokesman?

Bring the rich to heel or face a nuclear war. It’s your revolting choice.
What makes you think that the rich want a nuclear war?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-15-2017 8:23 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2017 12:02 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 4 of 86 (817286)
08-16-2017 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
08-16-2017 7:18 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Phat writes:

Have there been any efforts to create such a party?

Just in the few who have run for office as independents.

Phat writes:

Is it even possible in this day and age to buck the two party system?

Sure. The independents do so and no law preventing a third party cannot be repealed.

Phat writes:

What would prevent either party from trying to hijack the workers party (if created) over to their side?

Prevent??
That is something that should be encouraged in both the right and left as that is how they are drawn further to a more desirable position that is not as far to left and right extremes.

To draw the third party vote, IOW, concessions would have to be made and that is how governments should be run.

Phat writes:


To start with, where do we get the money to back such a party? Next...where are the leaders...the spokesman?

Money, as with all political parties comes from their membership and supporters. As to spokesmen, they would likely begin with labor union executives who recognize that in war, workers and their families bear the brunt of the damage to society.

Phat writes:


What makes you think that the rich want a nuclear war?

I think they do as they are funding the weapons of war, including Atomic bombs and their delivery systems.

The rich have always seen war as a great way to enrich themselves.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 08-16-2017 7:18 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 12:46 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 5 of 86 (817594)
08-18-2017 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Greatest I am
08-16-2017 12:02 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

I think they do as they are funding the weapons of war, including Atomic bombs and their delivery systems.

The rich want a stable economy, and a nuclear war would produce a very unstable economy. They make a lot more money from conventional wars that are limited to 3rd world nations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Greatest I am, posted 08-16-2017 12:02 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2017 3:37 PM Taq has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 6 of 86 (817609)
08-18-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taq
08-18-2017 12:46 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Tag

If the rich wanted a stable economy, they would not destabilize it by allowing the graph that shows instability in our socio economic demographic pyramid to continue in the shape of a hockey stick that we now have.

That is an inherently destabilizing shape.

http://www.upworthy.com/...ng-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2

Obviously, if you know about demographic pyramids, you can see how unstable our present form is.

Regards
DL

Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 12:46 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 3:51 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7139
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 7 of 86 (817611)
08-18-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Greatest I am
08-18-2017 3:37 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Greatest I am writes:

If the rich wanted a stable economy, they would not destabilize it by allowing the graph that shows instability in our socio economic demographic pyramid to continue in the shape of a hockey stick that we now have.

That is nothing compared to the economic instability that would be caused by nuclear bombs going off in our major cities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Greatest I am, posted 08-18-2017 3:37 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 10:40 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9739
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 8 of 86 (817614)
08-18-2017 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-15-2017 8:23 PM


Why Doesn’t The Middle Class Revolt?
I read a good article on this topic, Why Doesn’t The Middle Class Revolt?

In which was the following noteworthy quote:

quote:
For people to demand change, they’ll have to first come to believe that the game is rigged. Right now, Americans think that they live in the Land of Opportunity–a country where, to an extent not possible anywhere else in the world, people can climb their way to the top through a combination of talent and hard work. The fact that this isn’t true and hasn’t been for quite some time really doesn’t matter; it hasn’t yet altered popular perception. (The same is true, by the way, of our health care system, which is by almost no measure “the best in the world.”)

I believe that the author put it in a nutshell right there. In order for change to occur, it must be perceived as necessary.

GIA writes:

I would like to think, soonest is best, thanks to the left being too far left of the political spectrum, and the right being too far right.

People are not yet awake to the sobering reality....perhaps a lower class lifestyle is still too comfortable for them, as the article suggests.
quote:
The rapid proliferation of technology has driven the price down to the point where even the lower middle class has the latest smart phones, sophisticated automotive and home entertainment gizmos, and other luxuries that used to mark success.

Personally, I would be scared to revolt if it meant the risk of losing what little I have now.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-15-2017 8:23 PM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 10:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 9 of 86 (817680)
08-19-2017 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taq
08-18-2017 3:51 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Tag

You forget who owns the construction companies that will profit greatly. The same oligarchs that profited from creating the war in the first place.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 3:51 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 08-19-2017 10:43 AM Greatest I am has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9739
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 10 of 86 (817681)
08-19-2017 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Greatest I am
08-19-2017 10:40 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
if the intrinsic nature of the rich is to be greedy and selfish, what prevents all humans from having the same nature? What makes you think that some of us can become gods and change society while the rest burn?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 10:40 AM Greatest I am has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 10:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 12:48 PM Phat has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 86 (817683)
08-19-2017 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
08-18-2017 4:06 PM


Re: Why Doesn’t The Middle Class Revolt?
Phat

You are correct in that fear is what is holding back the type od social change the U.S. needs.

Yanks should look North to see how things should be done.

Canada took the U.S. ideology to heart, as has many other countries, but we improved it instead of letting it ruin our moral heart.

Canadians are perceived to be good people by the world, and we generally are, but that is because we live and walk the U.S. talk while the U.S. does not. We are tough enough to walk the American Dream while Yanks have softened and polarized their position in just two tribes/political parties and fear to put a third stabilizing party in place to create a real democracy.

The leader of the free world is now a mental and political coward.

Who knew that would happen.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 08-18-2017 4:06 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 12 of 86 (817686)
08-19-2017 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
08-19-2017 10:43 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Phat

You are correct in that we all have selfish genes.

We also have what are supposed to be moral political systems and if those systems allow for a few oligarch to own us all, then they are not moral political systems.

Oligarchs rule us. Not our political handlers.

If we lived in the days of the French Revolution, we would be lopping off heads.

It seems that man has lost his sense of rightness and morality. We now have a revolting middle class that is self centered and not country centered.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 08-19-2017 10:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13622
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 13 of 86 (817732)
08-19-2017 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Phat
08-19-2017 10:43 AM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
Phat writes:

if the intrinsic nature of the rich is to be greedy and selfish, what prevents all humans from having the same nature?


Social responsibility.

People tend to project their own faults on everybody else and call it "human nature". What human nature really is is a struggle between the need to preserve the individual and the need to preserve the species. The greedy and selfish put their individual welfare first but if that really was "human nature" we wouldn't be social animals at all - and we'd probably be extinct.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 08-19-2017 10:43 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2017 2:20 PM ringo has responded
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 08-20-2017 10:44 AM ringo has responded

  
Greatest I am
Member
Posts: 1422
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 86 (817749)
08-19-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
08-19-2017 12:48 PM


Re: Dumbest We Are?
ringo

I agree with the direction of your thinking but not the presentation.

We begin life by following the dictates of our selfish gene. It promotes life via cooperation which is a better strategy for survival than competition.

Only later does our loved push us to compete so that the fittest might be found and emulated.

If we do not put our selfishness first, and remain as fit mentally and physically as possible, we could not help the rest of society survive and thrive and would have to rely on it's help us to survive and thus be a drain on it.

I do not think we have an argument here, just a different way of expressing the same thing.

I see our selfish gene as a friend while you see it as the enemy but we would both use it the same way.

Regards
DL


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 12:48 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 08-20-2017 2:05 PM Greatest I am has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9739
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 15 of 86 (817788)
08-20-2017 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
08-19-2017 12:48 PM


Sacrificial We Are (as wannabe gods)
People tend to project their own faults on everybody else and call it "human nature". What human nature really is is a struggle between the need to preserve the individual and the need to preserve the species. The greedy and selfish put their individual welfare first but if that really was "human nature" we wouldn't be social animals at all - and we'd probably be extinct.
Now your philosophy makes sense in a way. You would have the middle class abandon their selfish insistence upon climbing out of the working class and "do unto the least of these" with an eye towards society-at-large. No wonder you are far left!

Even though you are an atheist you would likely argue that Jesus sacrificed Himself (the individual) for the benefit of the world (preservation of species)

GIA, on the other hand, would accuse organized religion and belief as cancer within society and would claim that we individuals are the gods responsible for social change. Thus Greatest we Are.

Edited by Phat, : added GIA to summation


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 08-19-2017 12:48 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Greatest I am, posted 08-20-2017 10:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-20-2017 2:08 PM Phat has responded

  
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