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Author Topic:   Israelites match Iran burials (50% DNA from specific time) during the time of Abraham
Posts: 1312
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Message 1 of 2 (818310)
08-26-2017 5:38 PM

There has been an amazing discovery and it would be even more dramatic if the DNA clock could be more specific. I suppose the evidence is that about half of the DNA from ancient Israel DNA is from folks who first arrived (or were already close by?) during the Neo/Meso Lithic period of about 10,000 years ago BUT the other 50% is from Iran and it seems to be from the time of Abraham (though it could have been something of a slow trickle over thousands of years I suppose - but no later than 3500 years ago).

The first article I found was this one.


The ancient Iranian burials (Elamite or Indo Aryan? I don't know for sure as I just found this issue) were matched to burials from multiple time periods in a geographic area fundamentalists would consider to be Greater Israel (or Solomon's Israel) plus the current population.

I need help in sorting out the scientific evidence but the journal article from July 27 is very much relevant to everything about origins.


Continuity and Admixture in the Last Five Millennia of Levantine History from Ancient Canaanite and Present-Day Lebanese Genome Sequence


( I decided to do a google search on archaeological discoveries after a great 6 hour conversation last night with an American (he had Palestinian Sunni parents but isn't a believer in Islam at all) about which region had the original ideas that made it into most religions. He started to use his phone to read sites on Zoroastrianism and he was impressed with what he saw. He seems to consider Iran the breadbasket of modern religious views even more so than me - though I was often arguing that many Israelite ideas might have predated certain LATE Zoroastrian texts that he was reading. He started by saying that Islam was just a copy of the Jewish and Christian religion, but now considers the ideas to have come from the east )

I found a ton of articles before finding the original source.

Here is the second I read


Ancient DNA reveals fate of the mysterious Canaanites

By Lizzie WadeJul. 27, 2017 , 12:00 PM

When the pharaohs ruled Egypt and the ancient Greeks built their first cities, a mysterious people called the Canaanites dominated the Near East. Around 4000 years ago, they built cities across the Levant, which includes present-day Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, and part of Syria. Yet the Canaanites left no surviving written records, leaving researchers to piece together their history from secondhand sources.

One of those sources is the Bible’s Old Testament, which suggests a grisly end for many Canaanites: After the Israelites’ exodus from Egypt, God ordered them to destroy Canaan and its people (though other passages suggest that some Canaanites may have survived). But did that really happen? Archaeological data suggests that Canaanite cities were never destroyed or abandoned. Now, ancient DNA recovered from five Canaanite skeletons suggests that these people survived to contribute their genes to millions of people living today.

The new samples come from Sidon, a coastal city in Lebanon. Marc Haber, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute in Hinxton, U.K., extracted enough DNA from the ancient skeletons to sequence the whole genomes of five Canaanite individuals, all around 3700 years old.

Haber’s first mission was to figure out who the Canaanites were, genetically speaking. Ancient Greek sources suggested they had migrated to the Levant from the East. To test that, Haber and colleagues compared the Canaanite genomes to those of other ancient populations in Eurasia. It turned out the Greeks were half right: About 50% of the Canaanites’ genes came from local farmers who settled the Levant about 10,000 years ago. But the other half was linked to an earlier population identified from skeletons found in Iran, the team reports today in The American Journal of Human Genetics. The researchers estimate these Eastern migrants arrived in the Levant and started mixing with locals around 5000 years ago.

This finding fits with other recent studies of the Levant. Iosif Lazaridis, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, saw the same mixture of eastern and local ancestry in the genomes of ancient skeletons from Jordan. “It’s nice to see that what we observed wasn’t a fluke of our particular site, but was part of this broader Canaanite population,” Lazaridis says.

Now that Haber had confirmed who the Canaanites were, he set out to find out what happened to them. He compared their genomes to those of 99 living Lebanese people and hundreds of others in genetic databases. Haber found that the present-day Lebanese population is largely descended from the ancient Canaanites, inheriting more than 90% of their genes from this ancient source. The other 7% may have come from migrants from Central Europe who moved to the Levant around 3000 years ago.

So does the new study show that there was no war between the Israelites and the Canaanites? Not necessarily, says Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute geneticist Chris Tyler-Smith, who worked with Haber. Genes don’t always track conflict. “You can have genetically similar or indistinguishable populations that are culturally very different and don’t get on with one another at all,” Tyler-Smith says. This might have been the case with the Israelites and the Canaanites—similar genes, but sworn enemies.

“If those populations conquer each other, it probably wouldn’t leave traces that we could easily pick up [with ancient DNA],” agrees Johannes Krause, a geneticist at the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Jena, Germany, who wasn’t involved in the current work. Perhaps there was a Biblical war that ancient DNA simply cannot see.


The 3000 BCE date of arrival could be as late as 1500 BCE.


This Canaanite-related ancestry derived from mixture between local Neolithic populations and eastern migrants genetically related to Chalcolithic Iranians. We estimate, using linkage-disequilibrium decay patterns, that admixture occurred 6,600–3,550 years ago, coinciding with recorded massive population movements in Mesopotamia during the mid-Holocene. We show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. In addition, we find Eurasian ancestry in the Lebanese not present in Bronze Age or earlier Levantines. We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750–2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations.


The range is from 4600 BCE to 1550 BCE for an Iranian Abraham to have migrated with the waves. (I consider the latest possible dates to be the most likely considering the Hurrian influx from that time. )

The 1750 BCE to 170 BCE migrations are secondary.

There is a circa 1350 BCE treaty between the Hittites and a people with Indo-Aryan gods (what we would now call Hindu gods). These people made up a ruling class in Egypt (they brought the horse to Egypt as they were among the Hyksos and other Canaanites). The Jerusalem that David took was ruled by these people. These people have names all over the Egyptian and Palestinian texts from the 500+ year period before the time of the Israelite monarchy.


Mitanni-Aryan - Wikipedia


Some theonyms, proper names and other terminology of the Mitanni are considered to form (part of) an Indo-Aryan superstrate, suggesting that an Indo-Aryan elite imposed itself over the Hurrian population in the course of the Indo-Aryan expansion. In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni (between Suppiluliuma and ...
‎Attested words and ... · ‎Names of people · ‎Names of gods · ‎Horse training

Mitanni - Wikipedia


Mitanni also called Hanigalbat in Assyrian or Naharin in Egyptian texts, was a Hurrian-speaking state in northern Syria and southeast Anatolia from c. 1500–1300 BC. Mitanni came to be a regional power after the Hittite destruction of Amorite ... Hittite annals mention a people called Hurri (Ḫu-ur-ri), located in northeastern ...
‎Name · ‎People · ‎History · ‎Indo-Aryan superstrate

Suppiluliuma (Hittite) -Shattiwaza (Mitanni) Treaty - Zoroastrian Heritage


A Obv. 1-16: When My Majesty, Suppiluliuma, Great King, Hero, King of Hatti, Beloved of the Storm God, and Artatama, king of the land of Hurri, made a treaty ...

Mitanni and Kurdistan - Zoroastrian Heritage


The Hittites used the Hurrian language extensively in their inscriptions. ... In the treaty, the Hittite King Suppiluliuma agreed to assist Shattiwaza gain the Mitanni ...
‎Location · ‎Wassukanni / Washukanni ... · ‎Mitanni Dynasty · ‎Arta

Mitanni - Ancient History Encyclopedia


To the east the Mitanni had good relations with the Hurrian-speaking Kassites whose ... Later Egyptian dynasties entered into pacts and treaties with Mitanni and the ... Egypt backed Tushratta in this conflict while the Hittite king Suppiluliuma I ...

Kingdom of Mitanni aristocracy shows Indo-Aryan roots


Jan 17, 2016 - However, with the ascent of the Hittite empire, Mitanni and Egypt made an ... Their sphere of influence is shown in Hurrian place names, personal .... In a treaty between the Hittites and the Mitanni, the deities Mitra, Varuna, ...

Ancient Indians in Mitanni. Excerpts from Suppiluliuma (Hittite ...


Jul 1, 2017 - Suppiluliuma (Hittite) -Shattiwaza (Mitanni) Treaty Excerpts ... king of the land of Hurri, made a treaty with one another, at that time, Tushratta, ...

Were the Aryan who ruled the Mitanni the same as those of India ...

www.eupedia.com › ... › Population Genetics › DNA Testing & General Genetics

Jan 19, 2011 - 68 posts - ‎18 authors
I think that the Mitanni may have also had a Hurrian component. ... In a treaty between the Hittites (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hittites) and the ...

Journal of Indo-European Studies. 2010. About the Mitanni Aryan gods.


The Mitanni Aryan deities are listed twice: in the Mitanni-Ãatti treaty (KBo I 3) and .... which seems quite extra-ordinary among Hittite and Hurrian scribes or ruling ...

Were the Mitanni Indo-Aryan or West Irano-Aryans - History Forum ...

www.allempires.com › ... › Ancient Mesopotamia, Near East and Greater Iran

Mar 22, 2013 - 20 posts - ‎7 authors
For starters we have a treaty between the Mitanni and the Hittites which ... the majority of Mitanni deities were decidedly Hurrian and Semitic, ...



The above links have timelines and maps.

Here is the google link


This should be seen as a smoking gun for the origin of the Amorite population which became what we know as West Semitic (ie Abraham and the Israelites). It should tell us that the Semitic language was taken over by Indo Iranians in Mesopotamia. Perhaps it happened over a period from 3000 BCE till 2000 BCE and the westward migrations happened during that time and after.

Were the Sumerians part of this Elamite group?

How did the Greek mythology get influenced?

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Message 2 of 2 (818406)
08-28-2017 8:26 AM

Thread Copied to Comparative Religions Forum
Thread copied to the Israelites match Iran burials (50% DNA from specific time) during the time of Abraham thread in the Comparative Religions forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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