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Author Topic:   "Natural" (plant-based) Health Solutions
Faith
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Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 316 (818767)
09-02-2017 11:02 AM


I don't want to clutter up the cancer survivors thread but as I keep reading up on nutritional treatments for all kinds of diseases including cancers I keep wanting to talk about the information here. I don't think I have cancer though I do have problems with my health, don't feel very good, tired all the time, overweight and not losing much though a little, have abdominal pain from time to time, and unfortunately also have no real motivation to do anything about it. I get interested in the subject of health solutions nevertheless and although I haven't made any radical changes to my own diet I have here and there incorporated some new ideas, not enough to feel any great change in my life but I keep reading anyway.

I mentioned my belief in the value of vegetable juices on the other thread although I don't do those as I should either. Tiredness. Think about it and don't do it. It takes prep work and cleanup and I just don't get going on it. Sometimes I don't even eat a meal because I'm too tired, and then when I'm so hungry I can't stand it another minute I resort to the simple easy solution of making a sandwich of stuff that isn't good for me, and around we go.

I don't really want to talk about my own situation here, I just figured I'd have to say something about it on a thread on this subject. In other words I am no example of anything, but I hope I can be useful in digging up some helpful information.

I'd really like to discuss the alternative medical plans that have become so popular in recent years. Moose posted something on the thread about diet criticizing Dr. Mercola as some kind of fanatic, the gist of the criticism seeming to be aimed at the idea of "natural" solutions when according to the critic everything is natural when you get down to it.

But there really is a meaning to the word in this context that isn't so easily dismissed. It generally refers to eating plant foods with the least amount of processing and pesticides, with or without animal meats. Those who incorporate meat usually emphasize a lack of artificial treatments of the animal such as hormones to increase growth, recommending natural grass-fed beef etc. Sure, hormones are "natural" too but not when they are extracted from their source and applied somewhere else to change the quality of food.

I don't particularly follow Mercola but have found useful information at his site just as I find it at many alternative med sites. I don't have any reason to think he's any more fringey than any of the others who teach on this subject that are out there. He's nutrition-oriented as are all of them. They differ from each other on specifics and at this stage you can pretty much just go with whatever seems to work best for you because there are no settled standards.

As for cancer cures through nutrition, carrot juice is always up there on the list. This seems to have originated with Max Gerson back in the twenties, got picked up by Jay Kordich who makes it just one of a list of juices for general health. And most recently I've found it as a big part of the program followed by Chris of Chris Beat Cancer. Joe Cross is another juice promoter these days, who did the video "Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead" which I think you can still find at You Tube, about how he lived on nothing but vegetable and fruit juices for two months, lost weight and got off medications.

Chris of Chris Beat Cancer is an interesting story because he was diagnosed with Stage 3 colon cancer when only 26 years old. He knew nothing at all about cancer or treatments for it at the time but soon found himself deciding against conventional treatments based on a series of events that occurred. He's a Christian, it turns out, which I didn't know at first, and believes that through prayer God led him to the natural treatments that cured his cancer. But it's of course the diet and the treatment itself that is the main thing here, and that's mostly plant-based eating, mostly raw, and lots of vegetable juices..

He tells his story in this interview, starting about 6:20. Around 18:20 he gives a brief description of his diet.

In another video he interviews a former oncology nurse who eventually became an advocate of nutrition-based cancer treatment: (I'll have to go find that one)

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29612
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 2 of 316 (818768)
09-02-2017 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
09-02-2017 11:02 AM


Just another example of the CCoI belief in source over content.

TESTIFY!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 11:02 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 3 of 316 (818773)
09-02-2017 11:56 AM


Well I just found out something that is encouraging to me. I love juices, I particularly love carrot-celery -beet juice, which I got started on because it's supposed to be good for the liver, and it turns out that is what Chris was taking -- 64 ounces a day, though the beet was just an occasional part of it. Gerson cancer therapy has people drink 104 ounces a day and they insist on making each 8-ounce glass fresh. Chris says he made his 64 ounces all at once in the morning, kept it refrigerated and drank it a glass at a time through the day. Now maybe that isn't helpful to anyone but me but it is very helpful to me to know you don't have to be as strict as Gerson and still get health benefits, and in his case the health benefit was the cure of stage 3 colon cancer. Not alone though, other diet changes as well which I'm continuing to read up on.

So far the stuff that doesn't inspire me, in his or any of these alternative therapies, is their emphasis on mental or spiritual practices, particularly Positive Thinking. Leave my head alone. I'm all for prayer of course, and I'm nearly allergic to stress, can't stand that state of mind and go out of my way to avoid it including going back to bed whenever it strikes, so I can go along with those two elements of these systems. But Positive Thinking no, don't mess with my head, don't tell me I have to be all jolly and upbeat when there is no reason for being jolly and upbeat; and please don't prescribe the kind of faith that requires me to say that God is doing something before I know He's done it. Gratitude is great, but that kind of faith is not faith, it's some kind of mental manipulation.

That said, I'm all for finding out what kinds of nutritional decisions work and don't work.


    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 316 (818774)
09-02-2017 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
09-02-2017 11:23 AM


Yep and you believe the testimonies or you don't. Enough of them going in the same direction over time should have some persuasive power though.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
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Posts: 8800
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 10.0


(5)
Message 5 of 316 (818776)
09-02-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
09-02-2017 11:59 AM


Murder
If you bothered to check things you'd find that Chris Wark had a 2 out of 3 chance of surviving without doing anything at all so the best bet is that his survival is due to chance and nothing at all to do with his so-called "treatment".

He survived because he had surgery. That is the lesson to learn here.

Then he pushes his "treatment" and consults for big bucks. In doing so he encourages others to skip chemo which will result in a number of deaths for those less lucky.

This is what the facts tell us.

Enough of them going in the same direction over time should have some persuasive power though.

And over and over again it has been shown that this direction leads to wrong answers. If we get a bunch and then do properly designed studies to test these ideas then we get reliable answers.

Since we expect 2/3 of people in Wark position to recover with no chemo we expect to get lots of testimonies. But if you make decisions based on them we expect people to die unnecessarily.

And you are contributing (as best you can) to that.


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 Message 4 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 11:59 AM Faith has responded

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Granny Magda
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Posts: 2352
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 2.5


(4)
Message 6 of 316 (818778)
09-02-2017 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
09-02-2017 11:02 AM


Alternative Medicine Kills Cancer Patients
Hi Faith,

I don't want to clutter up the cancer survivors thread but as I keep reading up on nutritional treatments for all kinds of diseases including cancers I keep wanting to talk about the information here.

I think that's probably a wise move!

I don't think I have cancer though I do have problems with my health...

You don't think you have cancer?! Have you seen a doctor? Because if you even suspect that you might have cancer, you should see a doctor. If you're suffering from things like abdominal pain, you should see a doctor. Seriously, they won't mind.

Our dear departed colleague Buzsaw serves as an illustrative example. He was always so proud of the fact that he never needed a doctor, right up until he found he had cancer. I would be saddened to see you make the same mistake. If you feel bad, see a doctor.

Anyway, sorry to hear that your under the weather, hope you feel better soon.

I mentioned my belief in the value of vegetable juices on the other thread

Yeah, fruit and vegetable juices are great. They're tasty and they're a good way of getting a bit of quick nutrition, especially if you're not eating so well. There's nothing "alternative" about this though; diet and nutrition are standard parts of any doctor's toolkit. Alt-med types like to portray their diet advice as being some amazing revelation, when in fact, much of it is utterly mainstream and uncontroversial. Mainstream practitioners promote diet-based interventions too, just ask any dietician. the difference tends to be that alt-med proponents make bigger claims for dietary interventions than is supported by the evidence.

Moose posted something on the thread about diet criticizing Dr. Mercola as some kind of fanatic,

I'm not sure that's quite what Moose meant. You'd have to ask him, but personally, I don't see Mercola as a fanatic as much as I see him as a quack and a snake-oil salesman. YMMV.

the gist of the criticism seeming to be aimed at the idea of "natural" solutions when according to the critic everything is natural when you get down to it.

It's more that people take exception to the way in which alt-med typically promotes "naturalness" as a positive quality in and of itself. This is wrong. Herpes, for instance, is natural, as are tsetse flies and yet I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they are bad things. Cars and computers on the other hand are entirely artificial but they certainly have their advantages. Aspirin provides a good specific example; in its natural form, in willow leaves, it might help with your pain, but it will play hell with your stomach lining. The synthesised modern version on the other hand, is more effective and far more user-friendly.

Naturalness cannot be taken as a synonym for goodness or usefulness. A natural remedy has no inherent advantage over an artificial one simply by dint of its being natural.

But there really is a meaning to the word in this context that isn't so easily dismissed. It generally refers to eating plant foods with the least amount of processing and pesticides, with or without animal meats. Those who incorporate meat usually emphasize a lack of artificial treatments of the animal such as hormones to increase growth, recommending natural grass-fed beef etc. Sure, hormones are "natural" too but not when they are extracted from their source and applied somewhere else to change the quality of food.

I hear what you're saying here. Modern farming can be very artificial and it's often set up so as to favour the needs of distributors and retailers, rather than being optimised to create delicious healthy food. Organic food has a role to play, for those who want it. But whilst organic farming has undoubted benefits for the environment, I am yet to see any convincing evidence that it has any specific health benefits (beyond a healty-but-non-organic diet that is).

I don't particularly follow Mercola but have found useful information at his site just as I find it at many alternative med sites.

Sure, but as I said before, that's because of the way in which alt-med co-opts uncontroversial medical advice and then acts as if this was something special and exclusive to them. I have no doubt that Mercola.com contains lots of good advice about eating a healthy diet. I'm just concerned that it's mixed in with a lot of woo and a fair amount of outright quackery. Mercola in particular has a history of promoting quack cancer cures and undermining vaccination. That's grossly irresponsible and unethical.

As for cancer cures through nutrition, carrot juice is always up there on the list. This seems to have originated with Max Gerson back in the twenties, got picked up by Jay Kordich who makes it just one of a list of juices for general health.

And it's a complete fantasy. There is no evidence in favour of Gerson Therapy and it is a form of quackery.

If you have cancer, GO TO AN ONCOLOGIST! Carrot juice will not save you. I mean, I bloody love carrot juice. Carrot, orange and beetroot juice, that's some tasty juice! But still, if I'm thirsty, I drink carrot juice. If I had cancer, I would go to an oncologist. I cannot overemphasize this! Don't place your life in the hands of your greengrocer. Go to a doctor.

Chris of Chris Beat Cancer is an interesting story because he was diagnosed with Stage 3 colon cancer when only 26 years old. He knew nothing at all about cancer or treatments for it at the time but soon found himself deciding against conventional treatments based on a series of events that occurred.

Well that's not entirely true. Chris Wark did indeed beat cancer, and I am genuinely happy for him, but he didn't reject all treatment. He says right there in the video (I only watched a bit) that he had surgery. That's what saved him. It's that simple. They removed the cancer surgically and none of the remaining cancer cells managed to take hold. That's great, but it isn't especially amazing. Dr David Gorski of Science Based Medicine estimates that, post-surgery, Wark had a 64% chance of surviving for five years, even without chemotherapy. He lucked out! I'm happy for him, but that doesn't alter the fact that with chemotherapy as a follow-up to surgery, Wark's chances of survival would have been greatly enhanced. Gorski estimates that with suitable chemo, Wark's chances of survival (after five years) would have been more like 80%. That's a big gamble with your life on the line.

Wark's testimonial follows a familiar pattern with such survivor anecdotes. He has a shocking diagnosis, followed by surgery, and then he declines chemo. He survives and, instead of thanking his luck and his surgeon, he credits his alt-med diet. He marvels at his miraculous survival, when in actual fact, his odds really weren't that bad. He confuses and conflates chemo as primary-therapy with surgery as primary therapy, just as he confuses and conflates chemo as primary therapy with adjuvant chemo post-surgery. Gorski puts it like this;

quote:
Basically, such testimonials completely confuse the role of two different modalities (surgery and chemotherapy) in treating their malignancies. Mr. Wark’s testimonial contains the same sort of error about cancer therapy that, for example, Suzanne Somers routinely makes when she relates her breast cancer “cure” testimonial. That error is to confuse the use of chemotherapy for primary curative intent with the adjuvant use of chemotherapy. Many cancers, such as hematological malignancies, are treated primarily with chemotherapy, but solid tumors (i.e., tumors arising from organs) are treated primarily with surgery to extirpate the primary lesion. Most hematological malignancies, if they are going to be “cured,” are cured with chemotherapy and sometimes radiation therapy. Most solid tumors, on the other hand, require complete surgical extirpation to cure them.

I would urge you to read the linked article. It goes into a great deal of detail on the Wark case and I think you'll see how it isn't quite as impressive as it might first appear.

This matters. Cancer patients are facing these choices every day and the (mostly well-meaning) efforts of alternative medicine proponents are encouraging them to turn away from effective medicine in favour of the flaky fantasies of quacks. Worse, a few of them are rejecting effective mainstream medicine in favour of ineffective alternative medicine and dying as a result. There is evidence for this;

quote:
Use of Alternative Medicine for Cancer and Its Impact on Survival

Skyler B. Johnson Henry S. Park Cary P. Gross James B. Yu

JNCI: Journal of the National Cancer Institute, Volume 110, Issue 1, 1 January 2018

Abstract

There is limited available information on patterns of utilization and efficacy of alternative medicine (AM) for patients with cancer. We identified 281 patients with nonmetastatic breast, prostate, lung, or colorectal cancer who chose AM, administered as sole anticancer treatment among patients who did not receive conventional cancer treatment (CCT), defined as chemotherapy, radiotherapy, surgery, and/or hormone therapy. Independent covariates on multivariable logistic regression associated with increased likelihood of AM use included breast or lung cancer, higher socioeconomic status, Intermountain West or Pacific location, stage II or III disease, and low comorbidity score. Following 2:1 matching (CCT = 560 patients and AM = 280 patients) on Cox proportional hazards regression, AM use was independently associated with greater risk of death compared with CCT overall (hazard ratio [HR] = 2.50, 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.88 to 3.27) and in subgroups with breast (HR = 5.68, 95% CI = 3.22 to 10.04), lung (HR = 2.17, 95% CI = 1.42 to 3.32), and colorectal cancer (HR = 4.57, 95% CI = 1.66 to 12.61). Although rare, AM utilization for curable cancer without any CCT is associated with greater risk of death.


I get angry at the thought of seriously ill people being led into this kind of dangerous nonsense by alt-med cheerleaders like Mercola. I don't blame folks like you, non-experts, who are just interested in the topic, but I do blame people like Mercola, who is an actual doctor and ought to know better.

So-called alternative medicine kills people by encouraging them to embrace comforting fantasies over mainstream interventions of proven efficacy. Anyone who promotes a cure or therapy has an ethical obligation to make sure that their claims are well evidenced. Alt-med fails that test. We ought not promote it.

Mutate and Survive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 11:02 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 5:29 PM Granny Magda has responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29612
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 7 of 316 (818779)
09-02-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
09-02-2017 11:59 AM


Unfortunately, those who listen to TESTIFY and actually believe TESTIFY seldom have the basic courtesy to post retractions after the utter nonsense kills them.

And to say "I don't think I have cancer" has got to be the silliest thing you have ever posted. Don't think. Go to a real Doctor and find out if you have cancer.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 8 of 316 (818793)
09-02-2017 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Granny Magda
09-02-2017 3:28 PM


Re: Alternative Medicine Kills Cancer Patients
I'm being seen by a doctor, he knows all my symptoms, he doesn't think it's cancer but he doesn't rule it out completely either. He'll put me through the necessary tests as other things are ruled out.

OK yes Chris had surgery at the very beginning. What he rejected was the regime of chemo they wanted to put him on afterward, and that's all he claimed to reject. There was a period of waiting while he was recovering from the surgery and during that time he studied up on alternative therapies and when time came for the chemo he opted out.

This matters. Cancer patients are facing these choices every day and the (mostly well-meaning) efforts of alternative medicine proponents are encouraging them to turn away from effective medicine in favour of the flaky fantasies of quacks. Worse, a few of them are rejecting effective mainstream medicine in favour of ineffective alternative medicine and dying as a result. There is evidence for this;

They also die as a result of the conventional treatments, and there is evidence for that too.

That's how the alternative med people feel about conventional med, that they are encouraging people to accept treatments that are poisonous, rarely work and put people through misery. At my age I can afford to make a choice if it did turn out to be cancer and I would definitely not choose the conventional route. It seems to me the other side deserves more of a hearing than it usually gets. I understand why people prefer to trust the doctors, the doctors mean well and want to do the best for the patient, but nobody is forcing them not to trust them, and most of them never hear of any alternatives anyway. All the "alt-med" people are doing is putting out an alternative view of the situation. Granted people with cancer are not in a good position to make decisions, as Chris Wark says of his own situation at the beginning, but I would think it would be better to learn all you can than trust anybody too completely.

Of course it matters, it matters a great deal.

Most of the people who have chosen the "alt-med" route came to it on their own without being pushed in any way. The push usually comes from those who think they're crazy even to consider giving up on conventional medicine.

Here, by the way is the oncology nurse interview I mentioned earlier. Below the video is a list of points on the video where certain topics are discussed so you don't have to watch the whole thing.

Here's the video itself:

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Granny Magda, posted 09-02-2017 3:28 PM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
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Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6192
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 9 of 316 (818796)
09-02-2017 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
09-02-2017 11:02 AM


Faith writes:

quote:
Moose posted something on the thread about diet criticizing Dr. Mercola as some kind of fanatic

Not merely a fanatic, Faith. He's a known scam artist and has been in trouble with the FDA numerous times for making illegal claims regarding his products, especially in their claims to cure cancer. He was taken to court by the FTC regarding his claim that the tanning beds he sold would actually reduce their skin cancer risk which is precisely the opposite of what a tanning bed does. He settled to avoid conviction.

He claims that HIV doesn't cause AIDS. Instead, he claims that believing that HIV causes AIDS actually causes AIDS. No, I am not making that up. His claim is that you get AIDS by merely stressing out over the idea that HIV causes AIDS.

I am sorry you are not well, Faith, but in the name of all that is holy, do not listen to a think Mercola says. He does not have your interests at heart. He only wants your money and will do and say anything in order to scam you out of it. Please, go to an actual doctor.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 13309
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 10 of 316 (818798)
09-02-2017 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
09-02-2017 5:29 PM


Re: Alternative Medicine Kills Cancer Patients
quote:

That's how the alternative med people feel about conventional med, that they are encouraging people to accept treatments that are poisonous, rarely work and put people through misery

And alternative med people will do even worse. Do some research on black salve to start with.

Cancers vary a lot. Good information is crucial if you want to make the right decisions. You won't get that from the "alternative" crowd.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 5:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 6:54 PM PaulK has responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6192
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 11 of 316 (818799)
09-02-2017 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Faith
09-02-2017 5:29 PM


Re: Alternative Medicine Kills Cancer Patients
Faith writes:

quote:
They also die as a result of the conventional treatments, and there is evidence for that too.

Yes, Faith. That is true. There is no 100% effective, 100% safe treatment for any ailment of any kind anywhere.

There can't be. In order for something to be effective, it has to actually do something. But if it does something, then there is always the risk that it does too much, not enough, or something else that isn't wanted. If any "alternative" practitioner tells you that what they're hawking has "no side effects," then only one of two things is possible:

1) They're lying to you.
2) It doesn't actually do anything.

All treatment comes with risks. But to be scared off of treatment because of the risks is to open yourself up to scams. There's a reason that "alternative med people" don't actually submit their treatments to deep scrutiny: They don't want to because they're not interested in your health but only your money.

quote:
It seems to me the other side deserves more of a hearing than it usually gets.

Why do you say that? What is it that makes them "more deserving"? And what makes you think they haven't had that hearing in the first place? It isn't hard to do an honest-to-goodness medical trial that lives up to standards. Remember, Faith: A nine-year-old has been published in the Journal of the American Medicine Association (JAMA) from her study on "therapeutic touch." Why do you think it is that these people never even attempt to do such studies that would be accepted in the journals?

The cliche is true, Faith: Do you know what they call "alternative" medicine that actually works?

Medicine.

It isn't that we know everything. It's that we don't accept people's claims simply because they seem sincere. That's how scam artists make a living: They trust your distrust in the world around you, know when to smile and what to say, and have no problems at all taking your money.

In this thread alone, Faith, you have put forth two people who, with only the slightest of investigation, were found to be scam artists. Your distrust in the world around you is leading you astray.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 5:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 12 of 316 (818802)
09-02-2017 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by NosyNed
09-02-2017 1:26 PM


Re: Murder -- the question is who's committing it
If you bothered to check things you'd find that Chris Wark had a 2 out of 3 chance of surviving without doing anything at all so the best bet is that his survival is due to chance and nothing at all to do with his so-called "treatment".

Chris said (I think in the interview I linked above) he was told by the doctor that he had a 60% chance of living another five years, if that's what you are talking about, not indefinitely, and that was not "without doing anything," that was with the standard treatments. And when he researched the numbers he found that the 60% is the survival rate for ALL cancers, but that for his colon cancer it's only 28%.

I don't think I've heard him say anyone should not take chemo, although he certainly talks about its being a poison, but IIRC he's even said to add the nutrition to it because it will help offset its negative effects on health. Also doctors get money from prescribing chemo and are ostracized for even thinking in terms of nutrition, according to the interview with the former oncology nurse. So it works both ways.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 316 (818803)
09-02-2017 6:16 PM


To RAZD on Cannabis Oil
Finally ran across someone agreeing that cannabis oil DOES work as a treatment of cancer. The ex-oncology nurse in the interview I embedded above, at 43:00 on the counter starts talking about the many cures she's witnessed.
Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 26604
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 14 of 316 (818806)
09-02-2017 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by PaulK
09-02-2017 5:46 PM


Re: Alternative Medicine Kills Cancer Patients but conventional medicine even more
Keep in mind we're talking nutrition here, ordinary stuff like carrots and greens. Lots of it, yes, more than anybody would think of eating without some idea that it could be very important for health. I haven't mentioned any odd recommendations, just nutrition, just vegetable juices in particular. There's no point in aiming the big guns against things I'm not discussing. How can there be a problem with carrot juice and big green salads (which I haven't mentioned yet but are a big part of the treatment plan)? Try it and if it doesn't work go back on the chemo. Or do it with the chemo.

Vitamin C is another big recommendation, in herculean doses of course, but it's not known to be toxic so what's the problem?

As for getting good information I'm impressed with Chris Wark's research, and the oncology nurse's too for that matter. I would like to have all that information in an easily accessible form.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 09-02-2017 5:46 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2017 1:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10062
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 15 of 316 (818814)
09-02-2017 11:04 PM


I can understand that desperate people would cling to any hope, but the idea that folks would reject treatment and prefer something that they saw in a video when their life is a stake really saddens me.

I wish you the best Faith. I am praying that you doctor is right and that you don't have cancer.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


    
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